Leeroy Stagger is a light

ep8 – Leeroy Stagger is a light

Glen Erickson: [00:00:00] Are you familiar with the characters in the Canadian streaming television program Letterkenney referred to as the skids? The All black wearing meth heads who appear to have no career in a small Canadian town of 5,000, but instead spend their days playing video games, but mostly hanging outside the singular small town confectionary store.

Dancing on broken down cardboard, doing meth, selling meth, chirping the regulars, then dancing some more to their boombox, industrial electronica music. There is a Spotify playlist, by the way, for Letterkenney Skids. You can look it up, but if you have seen one episode of Letterkenney, of course you know exactly what I’m talking about.

Now imagine that one of those popular skids hits rock’s bottom and decides to clean up his life, maybe get a job, pursue his dreams, and to get into a treatment program. I am pretty sure step one of said treatment program [00:01:00] is to never return to Letterkenney confectionary corner, or hang out with the skids.

Again, if you wanna stay clean, you just can’t go back. This is the problem with the music industry. Today our guest is Leeroy Stagger, and while a big part of Leeroy’s story is how alcoholism almost robbed him of the most promising career, but he was thankfully able to get help and turn it around, and now he has a long career.

It’s unfair to assume that’s the whole story just because I made this entire intro an adjacent metaphor about it. But Leeroy has continued a career in the music industry and. Historically, the music industry has been the primary enabler for a life of substance abuse. It’s like going back to the confectionary corner with every single show you play and every event that you attend.

Leeroy Stagger is a roots rock, [00:02:00] Americana. Alt country. You get it. Really cool singer songwriter out of Victoria bc. In the spirit of Steve Earl, Tom Petty, Ryan Adams and Jeff Tweedy, and not just in the spirit of, he literally possesses the actual spirit of all those guys. He has released 13 albums in 20 years, toured the world shared stages with his idols, all while overcoming personal demons and losses and multiple start overs.

He continues to make incredible music, including his most recent 3 AM revelations and is a genuine light in dark times. My name is Glen Erickson. This is almost famous enough. Thanks for spending your time with us. This is Leeroy Stagger.[00:03:00]

 

It’s really nice to see you. Uh, it’s been a really long time, but

Leeroy : It’s been a very long time. God, five

Glen Erickson: I can’t remember, I can’t remember to be completely honest. I, I know I’ve crossed paths with you since all the peak performance things, but I can’t place exactly where.

Leeroy : yeah.

Glen Erickson: Very minimally other than just watching all the things you’re doing, all the stuff that’s coming out.

So

Leeroy : of life has happened since then.

Glen Erickson: yeah, a lot of life has happened. But I hope to get into it a little bit here with you, if that’s okay. I know you must be, pretty occupied with a brand new release out. Like you just released your new, it’s your 13th album, 3 AM

Leeroy : Yeah. Revelations

Yeah.

Glen Erickson: uh, Wikipedia and Spotify have two different years for your first record, but one says 20 2004, one says 2005.

regardless, doesn’t matter except when I want to do math, so I’ll just make it more, even like 13 full [00:04:00] albums in 20 years is a pretty feat for an artist. Has that been part of your current reflections all? Is that what happens when we get older and you’re still making music?

Leeroy : yeah, I guess to some degree more so right now because I just got all my publishing back and

Glen Erickson: Can you explain that?

Leeroy : yeah. So, um, I guess just over seven years ago, uh, I signed a publishing deal with True North,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Leeroy : it was, that was right after Peak Performance Project. and they [00:05:00]

Glen Erickson: Okay. Yeah.

Leeroy : don’t know. Yeah, we’ll see. We’re talking about it and I’m, of course, I’m, I’ve got two records that are in the Vault that have never been released, and I’m starting a record next week with Joel Plaskitt.

So, I mean, we’ll just kind of see how it all shakes down.

Glen Erickson: So for people who are listening and don’t sort of understand, you know, the publishing bit when someone else owns those for seven years. Because for example, like there’s some pretty famous deals that have happened over the last three or four years, right? Where some artists are selling their catalogs for ridiculous amounts of money, some of these marquee people.

and then you’re restricted, I think people might who don’t understand that business. Curious to know what are the restrictions when someone else owns your publishing.

Leeroy : yeah. That’s an interesting, I [00:06:00] mean, you kind of wanna sign a deal where there, where it’s a mutual partnership. Uh, my deal with True North was great for me and for, I mean, I don’t know if it was as good for them as they would’ve liked, but I think it was, it was a, it was a great relationship throughout the whole term. Um, so the word is they get to, you know, the wording in the contracts is, or whatever, is that they get to exploit. Those records for the time that they own them. So they wanna try and get them on television shows, um, and films on commercials, whatever. Um, or I guess potentially have other artists cover your work.

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Leeroy : ev anytime that your song gets played on the radio, they get a percentage. And think like, there’s the mechanical side, there’s mechanical and what’s the other side? I still get 50% of, of whatever

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Leeroy : the, the thing is. So that was always great.

Glen Erickson: you just don’t get the [00:07:00] say in it. If someone wants to use their song for a political rally and

Leeroy : well, yeah, I, I don’t know. I think like any, you know, if Bob Dylan’s selling his catalog for whatever he sold it for,

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Leeroy : that in the clause that it is, I bet you anything that he’s, he probably still has the final say. I

Glen Erickson: Hmm,

Leeroy : I, I think, you know,

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Leeroy : anytime I would get a placement or a sink, they would always ask permission if, if, that was cool with me.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. That’s good.

Leeroy : I

Glen Erickson: It’s not,

Leeroy : con contract,

Glen Erickson: yeah. It’s not always the horror story that we hear about By the time it hits the media, right, of people who are getting kind of taken advantage of or they feel like they weren’t, uh, included anymore or corporate blah, blah, blah.

Leeroy : I’ve always had, I’ve always had pretty good record deals for the most part. I kind of, there was some gray area with some things with a European deal that I had for a long time with accounting at the [00:08:00] end. but I will say that the, the last record deal that I had with True North was, it was a dream come true for me.

Glen Erickson: That’s great. So, I mean, obviously as a, as a guy who’s put out 13 records over 20 years, you’ve seen a lot of different things happen in your artistic career, obviously, from what, maybe the typical up and coming trying to build a career in the early stages to being signed, to not being signed, to having a pretty full team, maybe to the do it yourself version, and maybe that’s come and gone over the years.

so I’m, I’m always interested to ask people because I think. to, to ask you to go all the way back and think like, does this 20 year career look at all like what you thought it was when you’ve made your first record 2004? But, so actually

Leeroy : Yeah, go

Glen Erickson: I, no, I was gonna say, actually, let’s back up before that.

’cause I’d, I’d like to hear a little more about [00:09:00] where you came from. I know you grew up and you were more playing in punk bands and you were in bands before you sort of decided to go your own way and do the name thing. how did that come about and what timeframe? And am I right thinking you were out on the island growing up kind of in those formative years.

How did that sort of develop into, I wanna play music. Maybe my parents want me to do something else, um, but I’m gonna do this, and then people start responding and you start doing stuff. How did that happen for you?

Leeroy : yeah. Well, my parents have never really said boo about what they wanted me to do. I don’t think they ever talked about anything like that

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Leeroy : They’ve always been very, they’ve always been supportive of my career. Um, I just think they always are. You know, my parents were never together while I was, conscious of it. my, I come from a blue collar. Upbringing. My dad’s a car mechanic. My brothers are all in the trades. so I grew up on the island here with very much [00:10:00] hunting, fishing, race cars, dirt bikes, and I guess, you know, I’m a product of, like I said, parents were never together. And then stepparents, there’s divorces.

So I was always kinda left to my own devices a lot of the time. especially with emotional issues. I grew up in a pretty abusive situation for the kind of formative years of my childhood and just kind of, escaped into music and radio, uh, when I was little. So what I was hearing on the radio was things like souls, runaway train, um, Madonna’s.

This used to be my playground. bands. That, I don’t know, I guess like REM it was like kind of that era of nineties, late eighties, nineties

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : of roots, pop rock, bottle rockets, bands like that, that were

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Leeroy : in Victoria. Um, and then of course I would get the radio from [00:11:00] across the Georgia Strait into Vancouver and into Seattle.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : I was hit, I was listening, you know, I late at night when I was supposed to be sleeping, I would put my covers over my head and I’d take my little clock radio and I’d tune into KISM outta Seattle or, or, um, Z 93 out of, out of Vancouver and just kind of get lost in these little worlds. And was the first time that I actually felt, felt moved by art, you know?

Glen Erickson: Mm.

Leeroy : Um, so that, and then my grand, my grandpa was in radio for 50 years and I did work experience at the radio station. That would, you know, later on go to add my songs, which is really, really cool to

Glen Erickson: Yeah. That’s very cool.

Leeroy : experience in elementary and high school. And I remember they actually put me on air for 15 minutes.

They’re like, okay, you just go for it. And, uh, you know,

Glen Erickson: A different era. A [00:12:00] different era back then.

Leeroy : Yeah, it was cool. It was cool. Um, then, you know, yeah, outta high school I was really into punk rock in high school and uh, I remember going to see the Rolling Stones. I was probably in junior high and that was the first time that I’d ever been exposed to anything like that,

Glen Erickson: Mm,

Leeroy : in a live setting.

And I was like, huh, that’s kind of, kind of what I wanna do. Which is a blessing and a curse, you know? ’cause you’re set the bar high.

Glen Erickson: absolutely.

Leeroy : yeah. I mean,

Glen Erickson: So what was the draw to punk? What was the draw to punk? Was there a version of punk? I mean, that would’ve been what, earlier, mid nineties. Punk wherein it was like, there’s the version that was always underground. Like there was like the S nfu going around and playing all the small things, but then there was all of a sudden Green Day signs of mainstream record deal and you have a whole new version of punk.

What was the draw? I mean, I, you know, there’s a [00:13:00] little analysis that isn’t a hard reach of. You know, teens who were escaping things and escape into music way into that genre.

Leeroy : Heavier

Glen Erickson: sub-genres, even heavier music. Yeah. That had a lot of angst and expression. Um,

Leeroy : Well, in hindsight,

Glen Erickson: a piece for you?

Leeroy : yeah, of course. In hindsight it started with Green Day, uh, with Dukey for sure. You

Glen Erickson: Hmm. Yeah.

Leeroy : because there’s angry music. I declare I don’t care no more. You know, it’s just like when a kid hears that who comes from a troubled home, oh shit, okay, finally Art.

That, that speaks to how I feel.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : you know, green Day Offspring, I was still, you know, probably junior high maybe even late elementary school or middle school or whatever it was called. And I remember distinctly, but I remember also hearing like through, [00:14:00] through friends, older siblings, hearing the Lemonheads and um, of those other kind of, those like nineties alt bands. But, you know, as soon as I heard Green Day, it was, it was on. And then of course through Green Day, and skateboarding, you kind of get into, remember those compilations were. Really huge. So then it was no effects propaganda. But then when I

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : to high school and started going to punk shows here in Victoria, of course we have the day glow portions here in Victoria. So

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : you go see the day glows and you’re like, this is a whole nother level of aggression and punk rock and humor. And um, and so then you start to get into those kind of bands, which I guess would be, delos. And then I, I always was kind of attracted to the bands that were on the rock and roll spectrum of things.

So Super Suckers were one of my favorite bands.

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : Uh, black Halos was my [00:15:00] favorite band quite a long time. And I befriended the guys in the Black Halos. Um, I was even gonna try out for bass for them for a while. And I remember I was living with the hot, hot heat guys, uh, and basically

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Leeroy : them, begging them to show me how to, uh. play bass

Glen Erickson: that’s great.

Leeroy : Kayla’s records.

Glen Erickson: I.

Leeroy : Um, but I, I chickened out from auditioning, but, uh, which is for the better I think. But, um, so heavy music and then probably through the super suckers I heard Steve Earl and through my best friend Tyson,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Leeroy : he played me El Corozon one day and I was like really into it and I thought looking through the booklets on the cd, which is, you know, a shame that that is kind of gone by the wayside.

Glen Erickson: Hmm

Leeroy : I looked at, at the, the credits and I’m like, holy shit. The super suckers are on this record.

about just over 10 years ago I was opening up for Steve in Chicago and I told the story about how I came to his music and, um, [00:16:00] Ron Heathman from the Super Suckers who’s passed away a couple years ago now, but he came up to me and said, I’m Ron from the Super suckers.

Like, thank you for, for

Glen Erickson: Oh, wow.

Leeroy : Yeah. So it

Glen Erickson: What a moment.

Leeroy : it’s come full circle. so, you know, through that, through that period of punk rock, which was important in going to all ages shows, but then kind of getting into the harder punk rock, which led to harder drinking, harder drugs for me. Um, you know, I don’t regret that period of time and I still love that kind of music, but I just wish I was a little more aware of the pitfalls

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : were available for a young kid that looked up to older people that were maybe not the best role models at the time.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : and then, you know, that just naturally through bands like the super suckers bands like Social

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : starts to lead to roots music, right? Like Mike Ness [00:17:00] would, we was sing Johnny Cash covers and, and you start to go, oh, what’s, what’s all this stuff about? And, and then I came into Roots Music through Steve Burl and Ryan Adams and. Ryan Adams was like a big one for me back then because I’d never seen anybody with Jet Black hair in a Ramone’s t-shirt playing an acoustic guitar and making music that sounded like Tom Petty. And I went, oh, okay.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I’m glad you said that, Leeroy, because I like, I wanted, I, I’ve wanted to put you right on that one for a long time, but it, it’s felt not right to, even for the last three or four years, he’s, he’s had a bit of a cloud over his name obviously. Um, but aside from that, he was very formative for me too.

And I,

Leeroy : yeah.

Glen Erickson: I know from, not from when I like, so I, I, I began, you, you got on my personal radar around your Radiant land record, I think.

Leeroy : cool.

Glen Erickson: but you know, it was honestly, yeah, I would say it was [00:18:00] the, everything is real record, which came out I think after I. When we met and got to hang out at the Peak Performance Project stuff, um, that felt like the rock and roll album to me from Ryan Adams, uh, so much.

And besides a lot of that stuff. So I love that, you know, that that’s just an honest influence for you because I can hear it so much. They just seem to fit and blend. I mean, I mean, there’s a couple things I definitely want to talk about you ’cause I love your experience and that you’re willing to talk about it.

And, but to sort of move where we were moving, I’m, I’m curious then, like, so you’re, you had entries and you had gateways into essentially the kind of career in music that you’ve created as far as sort of, uh, genre and what quote unquote lane you ended up in. So you didn’t make a record, like your first record lands you in that.

You know, as Leeroy Stagger, [00:19:00] I’m wondering how that specifically came to you starting to make music, and that was the kind of music you made, what people were around you were responding to, or whether you just needed to make sort of a thing.

Leeroy : No, it was very much the people who were around me at the time. So, um, like I said, I’d come, I was in a punk rock band called The Staggers with, um, my best friend Tyson, who you, you’ve definitely met

Glen Erickson: Yep. Yep.

Leeroy : he’s coming in from Alberta today actually to visit. so the Staggers was great, really fun, ridiculous, you know, lots of stories, that disbanded.

I piled up with the Hot, hot Heat guys ’cause they had, we played some shows together and they really liked what I was doing and liked that I was, crazy and, and had these great antics and was, you know, inspired by Billy Hopeless from the, the, um, the Black Halos. And so we became fast friends and I toured around with them for a couple years, lived with them, made some [00:20:00] music with them. and uh, and we used to hang out at this bar called Logan’s. I was, I remember being on the

Glen Erickson: Is it still there? Logan’s Pub still there?

Leeroy : it’s shut down, which

Glen Erickson: Uh, that’s too bad.

Leeroy : But I remember being on the Hot, hot heat bus with Ryan Adams, uh, rock and roll. I think it was the Rock and Roll record maybe gold. And they were just, they were so, they were pissed off that I was listening to, but I was so obsessed with this sound. so after that tour, you know, I stepped off the bus and was like, here I go, like, this is what I’m gonna do.

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : that time in Victoria was insane. It was so cool for Roots music, and it was all based around Carolyn, mark and Tolan McNeil and their house, um, on Chambers Street and, and also the Hoot Nanny that Carolyn would host every Sunday at Logan’s.

And this thing, it was nuts. It was just, it was essentially an open mic for roots musicians. [00:21:00] would pick kind of the. of the songwriters

Glen Erickson: curate, actually curate an open stage. Yeah.

Leeroy : And, and I mean, and then after, after, um, the Hoot Nanny, we’d go to Carolyn and Lin’s house and we’d party we’d play guitars in the kitchen and we’d smoke and drink and there would be some, sometimes some snacks. and that was what we did every Sunday, unless Carolyn was on tour, then we wouldn’t go to her house, but we’d still do the Hoot Nanny. so through that, I can’t remember who it was that was maybe, maybe Carolyn had got me up, or someone had got me up at the Hoot Nanny to play some of my songs. And, you know, I was young and had black hair and looked like Ryan Adams in a leather jacket, and it was a punk kind of transitioning into roots music. so Tolan Tolan would make records in the basement of that house. finally when I was stupid enough to convince him to make a record on me [00:22:00] when I really had no business making a record. we made a record called Six Tales of Danger, which was an EP turned into a, a record called Dear Love.

And, um, right off the bat, a label called Magic Teeth who put out, some really cool indie records at the time, run Chico Run. And, uh, I can’t remember who else right now. They decided to put out Dear Love, and through that I had met Danny Michelle.

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : I’d become a fan of his. and we had talked about making a record. So at that time, magic Teeth had put out some money to go make a record with Danny. A label called Bupa came out of Vancouver

Glen Erickson: Yep.

Leeroy : decided to sign me. In the midst of that. you know, I don’t think they ever really did pay Gareth for, for magic teeth for putting out, uh, putting all that money out. But plus Gareth, he is a patron of the patron saying of the arts, you know, at this point. [00:23:00] and we had a good laugh about that a couple years ago too. But, um, I, you know, so, uh, right off the bat, and I remember through the hot, hot heat connection too, I remember I got a phone call my mom at my mom’s house and my mom called and, or my mom says, someone’s on the phone from New York and they, or from a record label from New York and they were interested in signing me right off the bat.

And I was just like, what? Oh, ah, what? This is

Glen Erickson: Wow.

Leeroy : Um, so I didn’t end up signing that, but I signed with Bopa out of Vancouver. ’cause I thought, you know, I guess I had some foresight to think, well, something, someone out of Vancouver is gonna be easier for me than, than New

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : Um. started a very long relationship with Bupa.

Uh, they managed me and they put out my records and we had a really good run, you know, for the most part. And then of course, the business collapsed in whatever that was, 2003 or 2006 or something, 2008 maybe,[00:24:00]

Glen Erickson: yeah,

Leeroy : everything was transitioned to streaming and, and Napster and, and basically pirating music. Um, so that label collapsed. Uh, sadly, I mean, I remember being on tour in the States and in all the magazines and I was meeting every big city I’d go into. I would go to the distributor and play for all the people. And by the end of the tour, all those folks that I just met and who were championing my record were all, they were all losing their jobs.

Glen Erickson: yeah,

Leeroy : so, you

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Leeroy : I was still, still too young to understand any aspect of the business, and I was drinking heavily and.

Glen Erickson: And were you still navigating, were you navigating that stuff by yourself? Had you. Formed any relationship with any kind of a manager or agent or anybody, or we just trying to figure it out or talking to your buddies and,

Leeroy : I had management through, um, through mpa. Shannon Martin managed me for a long

Glen Erickson: Okay. Yeah, I know Shannon.

Leeroy : yeah, which she managed Dan for a while too, [00:25:00] so, so like, yes, guiding, yes. Like they were good at the business end of things. and, you know, maybe I just, maybe they had life just advice for me at the time and maybe I just didn’t wanna listen to it.

But,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : I was also kind of around great business music business people, like my friend. Blaine Kaplan, who, um, manages, he managed well. He tour managed hot, hot heat. That’s why I ha how I knew I got to know him we’d stayed good friends. I’d go hang out with him in California and do all sorts of dumb stuff with him. But he managed, um, the sublime estate at the time and managed Cornelius from, um, and he manages Guitar Romanos now. so he

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Leeroy : a really good, good business mentor for me. but I just don’t think I was ready or fully formed as an artist then to kind of do anything significant. I wasn’t [00:26:00] mentored artistically and know, can’t go

Glen Erickson: Is anybody who, I mean, how do we mentor

Leeroy : that

Glen Erickson: people?

Leeroy : I, I work with a lot of young artists now and I do my best

Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, that’s a good point. Like you have, you have a recording studio, you do producing, so you now you, know, for that window of time you’re in a relationship with them.

Leeroy : yeah,

Glen Erickson: Um, yeah, that’s a really good point. I just asked the question, how do we mentor artists? And now I can think of off the bat, people telling stories of how some producer really kind of people on the right path.

Leeroy : Well,

Glen Erickson: cool.

Leeroy : I think I, I make an, I make a point to, to do as much as I can because for that exact reason, not because I need the accolades or whatever, because I want artists to make healthy decisions and also, make sound decisions on where their next step is, because nobody, [00:27:00] I mean, I did have great mentors and people like John Alice and stuff like that, but that, you know, that lasts

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : so long.

I guess, I don’t know. I’m working with a band right now called Pony Gold. And, um, I chop in the record for them and send it. I sent it to three

Glen Erickson: Yeah, yeah.

Leeroy : You know what I mean? And they’ve, it’s like, if I don’t do that, who else is gonna

Glen Erickson: Well, I know what you mean. I remember Chris Winters of Captain Tractor recorded our first, my band’s first record with us, and he, he put his neck on the line all over the place. He didn’t have to, but he was doing the same thing. Uh, it’s pretty significant to a, to an up and coming artist.

Leeroy : Well, I, I had, uh, I had eight songwriters at the house yesterday for a song circle. It was the first time

Glen Erickson: Wow.

Leeroy : that. And, um, because I, you know, I’ve been back here on the island for five years and one thing I, I just like, there’s no community here. There’s like that I had in Southern Alberta. It

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : exist it [00:28:00] did back in the day when I was kicking around Carrot with

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : and all those guys. So I thought, well, instead of bitching about it and complaining about it, why don’t I do something about it?

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Who else but you? Yeah,

Leeroy : we hosted the Song Circle last night, and it was amazing. And it was so great. you know, I’m not gonna say anything unless I’m asked, but a lot of these young artists are asking me, what do you think about this bridge?

What do you think about this? And it’s like, as a producer, you know, you

Glen Erickson: yeah,

Leeroy : I’m happy to get my hands dirty. And like that is a mentorship. I,

Glen Erickson: yeah. Yep.

Leeroy : that growing up and I wish I did. And I mean, I, I, in, in a lot of ways I did, I did have that through people like Tolan Dan Weisenberger who taught me how about guitar tone or something like that.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : um,

Glen Erickson: Well that’s a great point. Leeroy, like, like I, it makes me think of, ’cause I’ve actually had the good fortune already. A couple of the guests on the podcast have been involved in that peak performance project development program slash contest, and you were in the second year of the Alberta [00:29:00] one in 2015, I believe.

And so you got to experience the thing that we sort of laughed about, which was at the, the bootcamp where people would play a three song set and then they’d almost have like an American Idol panel of people give them some feedback. And a, it’s a palpable memory of how many artists had never actually had somebody stand up and tell them what they thought about their song structure.

Like I’ll never forget, uh, Ryan Goldman of Mother, mother. Always telling everybody, it became a bit of a, a meme around the camp afterwards of, you know, that chorus is actually a pre chorus. You need to go write a real chorus all the time. and there’s not a lot of places for people to get mentored. I think that’s, uh, it’s pretty sweet if your songwriting circle turns into an opportunity for you to use you’ve learned, help people out.

Leeroy : it’s gonna only make me a better songwriter too, right? Being around songwriters is great, but so many of them are just [00:30:00] kind of out and outer space with no mentorship on how to,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : you

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : be in the world. You know what I mean? Like, so much of it is just how do you, how do you be in the world healthily in this world that we do? so I’m just, I wanna, if, if there’s people that need that, I’m, I’m always here to help. And I try to do that with people that I work with sometimes. Like, you know, I, I’ve got a pretty good bullshit detector for nefarious people, and, and I’ve tried to get into mentorship positions with artists that I admire, and I’ve seen good and the bad of that,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : you know what I mean?

So, um, I. So I’m, I’m a little bit picky with who I bring into my circle, but always available for advice, I guess.

Glen Erickson: if it’s okay, let me dive into that a little bit about your life and how you’ve, I think, accumulated a lot of the right, uh, the, a lot of the right experiences to give the right kind of advice, [00:31:00] um, from what I’ve observed, like I,

Leeroy : in, in doing the

Glen Erickson: well, okay. Yeah. That’s a great way to put it. Right. That’s a great way to put it, the right experience in doing the wrong thing.

Um, you already alluded to your early days, which I think are pretty typical of. People who are just losing themself in music and they’re seen and maybe trying to escape from whatever’s happening in their life or their whatever, um, about alcoholism and partying and just being crazy. which, uh, you know, is maybe a rite of passage for adolescence, obviously for just, uh, age, but it kind of gets fueled at, at it’s different now.

And you can maybe comment on what scenes and industry is like now, but I know like the nineties into the two thousands was still the stereotype heyday of, of pretty

Leeroy : and

Glen Erickson: sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Absolutely. And I know that’s a big part of your story and I’m wondering if you can tell a little bit about that.

[00:32:00] ’cause I know it was a big part of your story, how you,

Leeroy : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: as I’ve heard you tell it before, it got lost in it for a while. And if you could sort of

Leeroy : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: a picture about what that looked like and how you’re able to get out of it and how. You know, I don’t know, like, it this way, I, I’ve talked to a few people in who are in, in treatment or in aa right?

And you hear them

Leeroy : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: and recovery and they, and for them, they couldn’t go back to the job perhaps if the job was part of the,

Leeroy : sure.

Glen Erickson: introduced them to it. Right. But you, the music industry, you can’t get away from it.

Leeroy : Well,

my version of the industry is very different now than, than it used to be.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : but yeah, no, you’re right. And also that era was really dark. I mean, it was fun, but in hindsight it was, it was rough and there wasn’t, I. There wasn’t a lot of people kind of check in things and going, Hey, are you okay? know, maybe let’s [00:33:00] just put it this way. I had, my situation had progressed to a point where I, the last thing I cared about was, was performing. I just couldn’t wait to get off stage so I could drink myself to sleep. to the point, it got to the point where I couldn’t get myself from gig to gig. The last, the last kind of tour before I got s, first time I got sober, I couldn’t physically get myself from Kona to Edmonton. And someone in the other band I was touring with had to drive my vehicle with me in it

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : to Edmonton. And then I realized I’d kind of hit my rock bottom, on that end of that tour. And, uh, I. Realized I needed to change, change because I, I did want to play music and to be in, in that world, but I realized that I wasn’t gonna be able to. and so I, so I ended up getting sober. I got sober in on tour in Alaska while places in the

Glen Erickson: [00:34:00] What year? What year was this?

Leeroy : uh, 17 years ago. So whatever that is, I don’t

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Leeroy : that would be, but 17 years this year. and, I’d got, well, I’d gotten sober for a month and then I flew to Scotland to tour over there and I thought, well, I’ll just try scotch, because I’d never really gone down that road yet. And, uh, so then, yeah, and then, and then that was in like a November of that year, and then by January was in Alaska and realized I needed, I ended up going to an AA meeting, just by chance by these two artists I was touring with. They were going, and, um, I said, where are you going? And they’re like, oh, we’re just going to a thing here.

And I kept pushing ’em, well, where are you going? And they finally said, well, we’re going to an AA meeting. And I said, well, I’ll go. And they’re like, really? I said, yeah. And they’re like, we figured you had a good 10 years left and you still, but, um, I went to an AA meeting and I, I, that was it. I never drank.

I haven’t drank in since, you know, knock on

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : and I worked a [00:35:00] program and still, you know, still work a program and, there was a period, there was a period for about three years after I’d gotten sober. I felt pretty lost in the music business. I felt like I’d burnt a lot of bridges. I felt like people weren’t really, Paying attention to what I was doing. I think I’d lost my record deal. And, I mean, the business was bad enough, but maybe that, you know, now that I’m saying it out loud, maybe that was just a result of, of getting as an artist in the last couple years and kind of falling into my addiction. So I felt like I had to really start to dig myself out of that pit. And, peak performance project was kind of the first time where people started to take me seriously again. And of course I won thing and, and, you know, I don’t, I don’t have anything bad. It was an incredible experience. Um, I think I went into that thing different than most of [00:36:00] the other artists there.

And I know me and you have

Glen Erickson: percent. You did? Yep.

Leeroy : but, um, I was, I had something to prove, you know what I

Glen Erickson: Yep.

Leeroy : said, I felt like I was pretty low going into that thing As it progressed, I realized like I’ve got, actually got a lot to offer, what’s

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : here. And I have to prove it to myself that, I’m an artist.

I’m also entertain. I I need to be entertaining. I need to find my spirit and get my spirit back. so, so of course, you know, I, I won that thing. And then right before I won, of course there was management offers, label offers,

Glen Erickson: Yep.

Leeroy : and I said, um, to the management offers, lot of it was like, let’s just wait and see you win.

And I was like, nuh, either you sign me now before they announce winners or fuck you.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : You know what I mean? And Kate, while he was like, yep, I’m in, let’s do [00:37:00] it. Um, so I’ve been with Kate since, so I guess that’s coming up on 10 years.

Glen Erickson: That’s great.

Leeroy : And I

Glen Erickson: I.

Leeroy : True North, uh, right away, like yeah, I signed with True North.

They bought two records, two new records, and they bought my whole back catalog. and so it was like game on after Peak and it was like, okay, you’re an artist. I built this studio, I built the Retone Ranch in Lethbridge. was incredible. I made, love verses, which is, you know, my most successful record to

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : I made Strange Path and, you know, we had Pete Thomas from, from the Attractions come up from la and Paul Rigby and Brad Barr and the Barr Brothers come in to produce my records

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : And it was,

Glen Erickson: That’s cool.

Leeroy : fantastic. And I, I worked with some, um, great artists in there, BL and Misha and the Span and tip Taylor rolled in one day and we cut a really cool song. It was great. And [00:38:00] then of course, you know, strange Path had just come out. We were touring that was, was, I think it confused some people. And then of course the pandemic hits and

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : halfway through April maybe, oh, I’d, I’d made, I’d started a record. I’d made a record called Dystopian Weekends Vancouver in March of 2020. So that session cut, cut short, but the day that we finished, I was racing home ’cause they were starting to close all the schools.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : and we thought the world was ending. So then, you know, that goes on for a couple months and I just looked at my wife Kobe, and I said, I don’t, I think it’s time to leave.

Like, I think I need to leave Alberta. I don’t think, you know, I was kind of like, I don’t know if this is where I wanna ride out Global Pandemic and. I saw what was happening politically. and we, so we sold our house with that beautiful studio and [00:39:00] we came out here to the coasts and I had my small little studio and I loved it.

It was great. It was like I had this little apartment a

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : it was a recording studio. then, um, of course in 2021, we had a major atmospheric river through and it put three feet of water in my studio and completely destroyed the studio.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : Yeah, so that was traumatic. There’s actually a documentary just saw the first cut yesterday, and it’s beautiful.

It’s about the last three years of my life I guess, based around the flood, and it has a huge trauma piece. Of course, we talked a little bit about my childhood, which was very traumatic. I lost, uh, a brother very young. So this documentary this and then, and then the last couple years of [00:40:00] kind of regaining my spirit, finding who I truly am through art. Um, it’s a, it’s a beautiful film. My friend Erica Chan made it. I’m, I’m excited. We’re trying to figure out how,

Glen Erickson: How to put it out and how to, yeah.

Leeroy : how do, how do you get eyeballs on this

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : it also talks about, so the flood and then the rebuild of this new studio space that, um, I have now, which was, again, built from the ground up.

Like Lethbridge. It’s about

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Leeroy : half the size, maybe even a little smaller. So it’s a small version of that. But it’s, it’s a

Glen Erickson: it’s beautiful. The pictures are beautiful. I’ve seen you post online. Um, I wanna ask you, Leeroy. Leeroy, ’cause you know, so this over 20 year span, it’s not just restricted to when you released albums, obviously, that you’ve just pursued this life. I mean, we’ve just briefly touched on in a few minutes some like incredible highs and incredible lows that someone might go through, right?

Like, like being able to [00:41:00] escape from the thing. Maybe you want to escape from, even if when we’re young, it’s a little more subconscious than conscious, but to be able to get. The kind of responses you had to start to get some success, get calls from a New York record deal. I think the very first time I heard your name was someone saying, have you heard about Leeroy Stagger?

He like, landed a song at the end of Grey’s Anatomy or something, which back then paid a lot of money. Right? So then artists, artists are gonna talk to each other about that. Like, Hey, this like local Canadian guy got a song, a placement and that was just a, a brand new world at the time. Yeah. Twice. So, um, so you’ve had these things happen, and then you hit rock bottom, as you said, in your personal life.

Um, and the alcoholism caught up with you and you have to rebuild that. You get into the peak performance project. you win a hundred, you win a hundred grand. Yeah, I haven’t even talked about some of this stuff. And you’ve got these like ups and downs, and [00:42:00] then you build a studio, the, you, you move, you rebuild a studio again, it, it floods.

You have to rebuild it. Again, I guess the thread I’m really curious about you, Leeroy, is, uh, what’s the thing that keeps you going? Most artists can’t even put second or a third record together, alone 13 through those kind of highs that make you think I’m gonna be okay forever to probably feeling like I don’t know what tomorrow is, quite often.

So, what’s, what’s the thing, what’s it been for you? I know I’ve, I’ve watched you make some choices with your health and and, and be open about that. I’m just wondering what the things are that have kept you going through these kinds of ebbs and flows, man.

Leeroy : Probably stubbornness more than anything. that kind of, I told you so because I’ve just been told so many times [00:43:00] along the way. or pushed aside as not the cool person. I mean, of course I’ve had those moments where I, I’ve been the, the cool person. but honestly, I, I really do feel like all of that, and even the film kind of portrays this has led up to now, which is, this is what it’s been portraying or pushing me, funneling me towards, which is, is maybe, maybe I’m supposed to be a light in the wilderness, a mentor for these great artists to, to do this. To not have to suffer the way ways that maybe I’ve had to. but also, like for me personally, I’m more content with myself than I’ve ever have been. And you know, I don’t, I’m not as, as I famous or big as an artist as some of my friends. but I’ve managed to have a career this. [00:44:00] And, you know, I live in a really home with a beautiful studio attached to it with two really lovely artistic kids and a in a healthy marriage. how, you know, like I don’t, I’ve, I’ve kind of won the fucking lottery. What more could I ask for? You know what I mean?

Like, I see some of my friends that are, you know, more famous and, and busier, I see the terror in their eyes a lot of the time where, you know, it’s just the,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : kind of scooted this great, like, middle way, you know, as, as a Buddhist, we talk about the middle way, a lot. And so I think the way that I’ve, answer your question, I’ve just held on the whole time never, I just never backed down. know what I mean? I just never backed down from being told certain things. And also like [00:45:00] having moments in my life in this career where I’ve been pushed around by some really big people and it’s broken my spirit. it’s broken my spirit, but I. There has always been some sort of underdog quality heart that says, well, okay, you broke my spirit, but now I’m gonna build it up better. And not to spite you, I’m gonna prove to myself that I’m as a creator, worthy as a human being to, help people and, and in the process heal myself. you know, in, in aa we talk about the, the 12 step and as of being of service

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : people in recovery. So in, in some ways, my career is a 12 step for people, not necessarily in recovery, but people that need some sort of guiding help, you know, have having a a sober [00:46:00] voice in a pretty chaotic landscape. kind of why I’m

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Leeroy : I choose to, to stay here.

Glen Erickson: that’s a, that’s a really beautiful sentiment, bud. I mean, I feel like the older I get, obviously I, I think I’m farther along than you. I just, it becomes even more and more polarizing the longer I meet the people who have been around to be, are you in the jaded. Camp, uh, or you in an optimistic camp.

And it can often feel like the jaded or the louder voices, especially if you still attend music conferences or any of these panel discussions or industry sessions or, or I can’t imagine now, like that used to be for us, the only way we actually heard from all those people. And now obviously in, in the way the world is in social media and, and accessibility to information, you could be literally just overwhelmed with all of these different messages.

[00:47:00] So, um, being a light, being a light to people is pretty, pretty incredible. I think also, and tell me, I, I, I wondered this observation and then you started talking at the very beginning, just about your family and where you come from and, you know, the way your music has evolved, uh, I feel over this time and even reading what, what’s been written about the new record.

I mean, everybody always, their bio always says it’s like their best work to date, but it feels like there’s a different kind of sincerity with you in this one, in this record about saying that. And I think it’s interesting that it this sort of zen ness of, being at peace with yourself, but even sitting in the pocket musically feels so well tied to where you came from and the land you’re talking about and the hunting, the fishing, there were blue collar workers, were that version society, right, [00:48:00] of of, of how people sort of live together.

It feels like it sits in that pocket really well. And I’m wondering if you felt like there was that kind of, uh. if I want to use that word, uh, with the past,

Leeroy : that’s a good, good observation. truth be told, it took me three times to make this record. Like I recorded it three times and to the, to mastering and everything.

Glen Erickson: like the songs, the same songs, the whole works

Leeroy : yeah,

Glen Erickson: through.

Leeroy : the first,

Glen Erickson: I.

Leeroy : version of it is a really cool version. I recorded it in the, the, the, the basement studio before it got destroyed, and it was kind of, I made it in lockdown.

So the drums were recorded in Los Angeles. Pete, Pete Thomas, tracked it in Los Angeles. and that was a cool version. And then, I had a bit of a falling out with the co-producer at the end of it, and that just kind of [00:49:00] ollied it for me. And then I realized, okay, well, out of the lockdown shit, you just felt icky about all that stuff, right?

And I just felt like

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Leeroy : raw and real and I, I need, so then I booked a session in, in, in Vancouver at afterlife, and it was seven a seven piece band live off the floor, no headphones. So that was the second iteration of it. And then that session on the third or fourth day, the engineer got covid and shut the whole session down. I

Glen Erickson: Oh man.

Leeroy : know, I had half the band had flown in for the session,

Glen Erickson: that’s heartbreaking.

Leeroy : yeah. So we, we finished the record and it was cool. but again, it just, it, and then. I something, I was ready to pull the trigger on it. It was ready to go. We mastered it. And then again, I just balked again. Once again, I balked at it.

And I had just finished my new studio and started kind of messing around on some things. right. And there was a couple [00:50:00] managers in my circle that were like, this record’s great Leeroy. It’s a, but it’s a bedroom record. It’s a headphone record and it doesn’t have any singles. motherfucker, like, okay. all right. And again, it’s that fucking all. Well, I’ll show you then. So I wrote, I wrote, what did I write? I wrote, um, watermelon Pink, which is, you know, it’s a single, it’s a banger. And then we, we tried to put it with the other stuff. I’m like, this doesn’t fit. Let me just

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : it. Let me rewrite this whole record.

Let me recut it. and then I cut Dennis Ellsworth’s count to 10, which I think is fucking brilliant song. Also I wrote, um, mediocrity Pill with Jay from Bedwin Sound Clash, and I just kind of was on this whole nother tangent of this record that became 3:00 AM Revelations. So yeah, it does, it feels like a really, like, um, it just feels like a really, uh, I don’t wanna say confident record, but it does, it feels like that’s what I wanted to do, and it feels very [00:51:00] settled. and, uh, you know, yeah, I, I do, I think it’s the best rec record I’ve written. I don’t know. I’m not sure. I think it’s close. It’s up there. It feels really, really solid to me. You know, love versus Is is every time I go back to that record I was like, wow. I was like, I was into it on that one. Um, strange path I’m really proud of too, actually. But, 3:00 AM Revelations is great. I mean, you know, we live in a bus, a world now where, everything’s so quick. Right.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : And I’ve always been an artist where, you know, I’m always onto the next thing.

Glen Erickson: Hmm. Well that kind of shows then how much you’ve produced. That’s for sure.

Leeroy : well, yeah, and I don’t feel like I, I’m super prolific,

Glen Erickson: You just keep, but you just keep moving. You just keep doing. That’s it.

Leeroy : it’s also like, if we’re fucking disciplined and we’re professionals, like I, why can’t I write 12, 10 to 12 songs in a year? You know what I

Glen Erickson: Well a hundred percent like that doesn’t get talked about.

Leeroy : yeah. And, and to, to that [00:52:00] res for that respect. Like, I’m not making a record a year anymore. I’m, I, and I’m writing, I’m writing a lot, but. also abandoning a hell of a lot more than I ever have or

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : songs. ’cause I’m going, they’re not, they’re not as good as, as they, I

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Leeroy : be. Especially when I’m producing so many great artists right now, setting the bar, you know what I mean? So

Glen Erickson: that’s pretty great.

Leeroy : Yeah,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : Um,

Glen Erickson: Well I was gonna ask you about that. Well, I was gonna ask you about that because I always find it you, I mean, you made the statement. I’m always kind of onto the next thing, and I’m always interested if you, we’ve been in it this long, what is still inspiring you? Like when we’re first starting, we’re just.

We’re always inspired. Right. Those first handful of records. So just trying to recreate the thing that our heroes were making. We, ’cause we want to be part of that same fabric. Right? Like for you Steve Earl, and you had a great chance to actually [00:53:00] play with him and, and meet the man who was a, an inspiration and idol.

But you know, you get another 10 years down the road. Like what’s the thing that’s inspiring you now when it comes to creating?

Leeroy : Yeah, it’s not, I think it, it, I’ve abandoned trying to be my heroes in the

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Leeroy : records, and

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Leeroy : they’re so good and people respect them more than ever. Um, I am just really, I mean, I have no desire to be, I don’t think I have, I don’t think, anyway, I don’t have any desire to have a hit song on the radio or, you know, you talked about Ryan Gilderman from Mother.

Mother. I just like, I’m, they’re so big right now. I’m so happy for their success, but I. I can’t help but feel that there’s a lot of suffering in that success. I don’t know.

Glen Erickson: Well, he has, he has a history. Go ahead. Sorry.

Leeroy : No, no. I saw them at the other day at the airport and I, I mean, I don’t know if Ryan recognized not, [00:54:00] but I was kind of just, I’d just flown in and was, I was tired, but I just looked at it.

I’m like, that doesn’t look like somebody who’s getting what they

Glen Erickson: Well,

Leeroy : You know what I mean?

Glen Erickson: well he’s got a history like you of, of some. Overcoming substances and stuff and Yeah.

Leeroy : that it’s great and I hope it’s everything that they wanted, but I know a lot of famous people and I don’t want that what they, what they have to deal with or, the kind of people that it’s kind of turned them into or, or like the self-importance of it all.

’cause at the end of the day, it’s like, you know, are people gonna be listening to our records in a hundred years? Are people gonna be listening to the Beatles in a hundred years? Probably not.

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : I mean?

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : what we do is like, it matters in the moment and it matters in the people that we touch.

And it matters in our circles, in our

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : in our

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : and in, and in the relationships that we have with our kids and the people that need us. You know, like I, I, I time for anybody that comes to my shows. I hang out [00:55:00] at the merch table, at, at all the breaks, and I talk to everybody that is there to see me or that needs me or needs to tell me how my music or my voice and on the radio, help them through a really tough time. have time for all those people. And if I was, you know, somebody else or I, I more my more famous friends, they don’t have the time for that. And I think that that’s, that’s the whole reason where, why I, I guess, Where I am, I suppose, is that I’m actually, I have the opportunity to connect with those people in a real, tangible,

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Well that’s, that’s very well, that’s very inspiring all by itself. Just I think anytime you see somebody who’s in alignment. I’ve been using this word in my life a lot lately. I recently had to deliver a speech at my father-in-law’s funeral, and, you know, I just talked about. How impacting it is.

[00:56:00] Like you never, I, I guess I used the word, you never really know how crooked you are until you’re pushed up against somebody so perfectly aligned. Right? And, and you know, it’s another version of being a light to people, I think, where you’re not doing it, you know, to spite them or to hold other people down, but you’re just, you’re willing to allow that version of yourself impact the people around you.

And, and it does like it. It can’t help but do so. And, um, I just want you to know, I find that really inspiring. It was really interesting to know at where you’re at now based on your music as the thing I can most observably, uh, take in and understand. Um, but also just wanting to know a about your personal journey and your, and your perspectives on the things.

So you. Is there, is there tours planned for the new record, or is there the typical rollout, or is it, is that different at this stage for you as well?

Leeroy : [00:57:00] it’s different at this stage. I don’t really have the desire to, to push like I used to. So I go on tour, I go, uh, I’ve been on tour for the last year. just don’t tour, uh, long like I used to anymore. But I’ve opened up a bunch of new markets that, like the Maritimes and Ontario and Quebec are finally starting to happen for me, which is really, really great.

Glen Erickson: Well, that’s cool.

Leeroy : so yeah, so, uh, you know, I’ve toured pretty extensively. Last year I toured with Steve Earl. I toured a bunch on my own, toured with Frazee Ford, a little bit before that. So I just toured in Alberta for five shows. Um, I go on tour in May, that’s the next run is May. So I’m, I’m

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Leeroy : producing, producing records.

I’m starting a, a Leeroy record next week with Joel Plaskitt. we’re just putting that, figuring out how the technical aspects of that, ’cause

Glen Erickson: the opposite ends of the country still.

Leeroy : [00:58:00] No, Joel’s here. He’s,

Glen Erickson: What?

Leeroy : um,

Glen Erickson: know that.

Leeroy : he lives, lives, um, most of the time here. He still goes back to Halifax quite a bit, but he’s

Glen Erickson: I,

Leeroy : he’s got an eight track tape machine here that at my studio he wants to make this record on.

So we’re gonna try that out next

Glen Erickson: wow. Wow.

Leeroy : seeing how that works. And it’s a completely different record than I’ve ever made. so like, and again, you know, like that, that’ll be the next journey to see where that goes. And, and I, I mean, talk about a mentor. He’s just a beautiful mentor and, and brilliant mind

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

Leeroy : one of my f favorite artists who we’ve just become great friends through, just through life and philosophy and,

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : but, uh, as far as like the old traditional ways, like I, I have actually very little desire to. To do an album cycle thing?

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : I don’t know. I think I don’t, I [00:59:00] don’t know. You know what I mean? Like, I just don’t know. Well, a I don’t know that I’ll be going to the United States at,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : for the

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : foreseeable future, if ever again. I don’t know. You know, I don’t wanna

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

Leeroy : but that’s kind of where things were starting to take off for me.

But I just, you know, also like philosophically, like I have to decide what’s best for my spirit and

Glen Erickson: yeah.

Leeroy : there is not what I wanna do.

Glen Erickson: So you have, you have a record then, I mean, you have lots of ways to promote that. Thankfully, you don’t have to get on the road in the streets the same way as we used to. But I mean, and you, you’re, seems like you always have a, a record.

Leeroy : I don’t have any, I don’t have any desire to promote anything other, like people should, you know, I want people to come to that, to that record on

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I get that. I get that.

Leeroy : I’ve been,

Glen Erickson: I,

Leeroy : been out for a while and I’ve toured a fair bid on it [01:00:00] already and

Glen Erickson: yep.

Leeroy : you know, sold a bunch of copies that have gotten off my shelves, which is at the house, which is great.

And then I’ll go

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : in May and I’ll probably tour the summer on it, and then I’ll probably put out either that film in the, in the fall, um, or I’ll put out this record with Joel in the fall and um, and then I’ll see where that goes.

Glen Erickson: And, and a cycle might be, I’m gonna guess a little, not just harder, but less appealing. You, you’ve filled some spaces in your life with like your, it seems you’re producing work for other people at the studio.

Leeroy : Yeah,

Glen Erickson: Um, you have the radio show on CKUA still, uh, dirty Windshields.

Leeroy : yeah.

Glen Erickson: which is, is that, that’s a once a week program.

Leeroy : a week. Once a week. I mostly prerecord it. we’ll do it live if I’m for fundraiser or if I’m in Alberta. the studio, yeah, the, the, the, the producing is, is very, [01:01:00] it’s busy. It’s too busy. And I do, I am craving touring a bit more, but it’s gotta be quality touring. I’m very picky with how I tour now, just

Glen Erickson: Uh, you’ve, you’ve earned the right to be picky.

Leeroy : No, I have, and it’s not like I can go and play big theaters like some of my contemporaries, but I could play small theaters. I’m selling and I mostly sell out the shows that we play now, which is, is great, is great.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : so yeah, so I mean, you know, but I do have a desire to, I think we might go to Australia later in the year for the first time.

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : so anywhere that’s like exciting that culturally I wanna go, I’m interested in. Um, I don’t, we just don’t have the desire to slog out on the

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : like I

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Leeroy : and it’s great when your support act on a bigger tour ’cause it’s,

Glen Erickson: Takes the pressure off.

Leeroy : it does take the pressure off. It’s [01:02:00] kind of my favorite way to do it. And it’s

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

Leeroy : pretty comfy. As long as the other, the group that you’re supporting or the artists that you’re supporting are, are kind and not assholes.

Glen Erickson: Very true general rule, right? Well, I mean, this is, uh. This has been a blast, buddy. I really appreciate you taking the time to meet with me and talk a little bit about your, obviously, your journey and your experiences. I, I think it’s always incredible to talk to anybody who’s been able to stay in it this long and yet, and maybe it’s directly just due to stubbornness.

Um, I’m sure there’s a lot of other great factors in there. Uh, none the least of which is that you are an incredible talent. you’ve made some great music, consistently throughout your career. Obviously. Uh, it’s music that connects with people, uh, which is probably the thing I loved being able to witness firsthand, being so close to you around that peak performance time and seeing some of your performances and just the way [01:03:00] you approached people.

And you were like a soft place to fall for a lot of, uh, artists that would be able to come and talk to you and be around you. And, I think that’s a. characteristic that, always kinda struck me. So I just wanna say thanks for taking the time, talking a little bit about, you know, the things that you’ve experienced and gone through.

yeah. And it’s, you’re a super inspiration to me and, uh, I just wish you best of luck. I’m really looking forward to, I’m really looking forward to this documentary film, so I’m gonna super keep my eyes. I hope that you release that in the fall and not sit on it too long. ’cause now I’m really interested, but yeah.

Leeroy : can, I’ll see if I can send you a rough cut. You can have a look.

Glen Erickson: Oh, I would love it.

Leeroy : and

Glen Erickson: would love it.

Leeroy : you for the, the kind compliments, and you’ve always been one of the, the good ones. So I, I appreciate you

Glen Erickson: Oh, that’s nice. Thank you.

Leeroy : your spirit and I appreciate your, um, taste in music and I, I don’t know, I’m, I’m stoked for you, uh, with [01:04:00] your podcast and

Glen Erickson: Thanks, man.

Leeroy : what you got coming up too.

Glen Erickson: Okay bud.

 

this is what we’re doing. Anyhow.

alexi: Yep.

Glen Erickson: Now people know. anyhow, how are you doing?

alexi: Oh, I am good. How are you?

Glen Erickson: Okay. I’m fine. I just feel like I haven’t talked to you much today, but

alexi: we have not been friends,

Glen Erickson: I don’t know that I’d clarifi it that way, but that’s all right. yeah, we didn’t know, we didn’t see very much of each other.

And then, uh, supper was a little disappointing. And then you had to run errands and now.

alexi: so you found, you found that too? ’cause I was just complaining to mom about that.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, no, I think we’re absolutely done with trying those roasts in a crockpot. I am, you know, the world has figured it out. There’s, I’ve Googled lots of things. I don’t know

alexi: Yeah,

Glen Erickson: what’s going on. We need some kind of revolution, a crockpot revolution, or it’s completely done [01:05:00] in this house.

alexi: I think we’re cursed. I think that’s all.

Glen Erickson: Maybe like we figured a lot of cool things out in the last couple years when it comes to cooking supper and that that is like, you know, when you think that someone looks really good and then they take their socks off and then their toes are disgusting.

alexi: No. It’s

Glen Erickson: The crockpot meal is the ugly

alexi: came off.

Glen Erickson: during covid.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Okay, that’s it too. They have

alexi: off and it like, it smells so

Glen Erickson: exactly.

alexi: excited, the lid comes off and you’re like, oh.

Glen Erickson: That’s a little better of analogy. Okay, so our crockpot roasts are the bad mask, unveil the bad mask, reveal of, of the Covid era. Very good point. Okay. Leeroy Stagger a guy that I’ve always had so much respect for.

so I guess right off the bat, like what I didn’t go into with him, quick little story for you. You want to hear my quick little story about Leeroy?

alexi: Always.

Glen Erickson: Okay, so I was the, so we, we [01:06:00] sort of referenced him winning the peak performance project the second year that it was in Alberta, the a hundred thousand dollars prize, back in, I guess that would be maybe 2015.

And, I. When I first went out to the bootcamp for that, which was like right at the end of August, the last week of August, I was really looking forward to meeting him because that would be the first time him and I had actually sort of met other than, uh, passing in hallways or in back stages or things like that.

So. I really, I had to tell him that story of, okay, well I think I told you this story recently, Lexi, do you remember my friend Brett gave us tickets to the Grapes of Wrath Little. They had a show that old, like late eighties, nineties band, Canadian band that I loved, and so we went out to Sherwood Park and we saw them play.

That was just like November maybe. Yeah. That was very recent. Okay. And maybe you overheard me telling this story to Brett and his wife, about this story, which [01:07:00] was that I was a huge grapes WR fan when I was in college, all that kind of stuff. and so then when I was in the band, the Wheat Pool, we were playing a local show.

We got added as an opener. To Leeroy Stagger, who was touring and doing pretty well at the time. Is it coming back to you right now? Okay. So the, yeah. Yeah. So the, as the story goes, we did our sound check.

But I was just wanting to clear my stuff off the stage to a degree and clean it up so it looked nice and all that kind of stuff. ’cause I had my stuff all over. So I’m trying to pack it up and then I, it’s almost like the old, you know, when you pick up a suitcase and it spills open, it was kind of that scenario and I had a bunch of my gear go over and there’s like.

Uh, an Ebo hits the stage and my batteries go all over. And then this guy from the, who’s playing with Leeroy kindly bends down and cleans my crap up with me and is super nice. And I’m like, oh, that’s a really nice guy. You know, he doesn’t have to do that. And there’s no, I was, you know, [01:08:00] I’m noticing the lack of ego from a, you know, he plays with.

The main band, all that kind of stuff, whatever.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: that kind of registers, I go backstage, I tell the guys, ah, he’s a really nice dude, blah, blah blah. That was really sweet. And then I’m walking around getting ready for the show and I just see all the road cases for the band that’s there and a whole bunch of road cases have like Grapes of Wrath written all over them and it grapes, a wrath sticker and stuff.

And I go backstage into the little green room and I say to the guys in the band, I’m like, man, someone. Has it really bad for the Grapes of Wrath. Like they’ve got this stuff all over their cases and they’re like, dude, are you like stupid? Like the guitar player for Leeroy is Kevin Kane, one of the founding members

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: The Grapes of Wrath.

And I was just like, oh, that was Kevin Kane who helped me pick all my stuff up. But I’m like, that was one of my, like Ahm, I’m a total idiot moments, but I had to tell that story to Leeroy. Years later because I was like, I was kind [01:09:00] of fan fanning out over the whole thing. I didn’t wanna say fangirling somehow I feel like that’s not appropriate for me to say, but, but that’s what I wanted to say.

So anyhow, funny story, but I was like, I think I told Leeroy that. I don’t need to tell him that again on the podcast, but that was kind of a funny moment for me. And when I think of Leeroy, that somehow always ends up at one of the top of the list things. ’cause I like to make it about me. No. anyhow, so I, it was a quicker conversation.

It was a good conversation. I really

alexi: Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson: liked his sense of, um, well he’s always, I’ve known him to have this real positivity. Uh, he used this phrase once about he just wants to be a light wherever he goes, stuff like that.

So I’m just curious because I don’t know if you had ever heard Leeroy before this,

alexi: but

Glen Erickson: okay?

alexi: like that’s the extent.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Anything stick out to you about the conversation?

alexi: I mean in, the least, like. Negative sounding [01:10:00] way, like the conversation like, although obviously very there was like less moments of like, I don’t know, like grade school teachers call, like aha moments where like, you know, other people with podcasts like say something or like talk about this like revelation they had. you’re just like, oh, like wow. Like I’ve never thought about that.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: Or, you know, talked about something that’s like very novel to their life and that is like obviously then what sticks out? I mean, the conversation I had, like the whole conversation was interesting. There wasn’t peak moments where I was like, whoa. but kind of nearing the end, he started kind of like, know, talking about how like he was producing now and you were asking him about like with the. A new album coming out, like if he was gonna tour and, he was just kind of about contentness with like, where he was at as an artist. and saying that, you know, I’m, I’m not trying to make like a hit that’s gonna, you know, go viral or [01:11:00] beyond played on the radio and I’m not. you know, trying to market myself so hard. ’cause if, if people find my music and they come to me like, and my music, like, then that was like what was meant. And like, just like the way he was talking, it was just like he wasn’t trying to chase this artist high of being the most famous to the point of when he was talking about like, seeing other artists and his friends who are artists who have made it big. And like not feeling envious of where they were at. I just thought that feels so unique to hear. I feel like with so many, if not all artists, you either hear them say that they’re chasing that high and being that big not like, you know, that’s

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: always a goal or that like. That was their goal and it didn’t work.

And like what they’re doing now, you, you never really hear like, I’m not trying to get there. Like, that’s not my goal. yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: just wondering, like, I mean, and it leading me into what I was gonna ask you and I was gonna ask you [01:12:00] I was gonna save it for the podcast though, which is what I’ve done.

Glen Erickson: good for you.

alexi: but yeah, I was just wondering like how, how you felt about that and like, if. That’s, I mean, as someone who’s in the music industry and like who’s been in the scene, like, do you find him saying that unique or is that kind of like a lot of people who, trying to like go for that and

Glen Erickson: I think that’s a really good question actually, Lexi, like, um. So just hearing you say that immediately made me think to the way he was saying it. Not just what he was saying, but the way he was saying it. Right. To which I would have a bullshit meter on maybe, at this point in my life and career like, like I hear that sort of conversation.

I’ll, I’ll just say like backstage at the Folk Fest when I talk amongst people who are sort of in the twilight of their career, let’s put it that way. And, well, I got two little pieces to say to it, but specifically to what you ask, I do think it [01:13:00] was unique and the reason I think it was so unique and heartwarming because it was so true.

And the truth is, the thing that you wouldn’t see, I think, on the side of the industry, uh, yet, is that usually that gets delivered by somebody who’s probably quite jaded, not content, right? There would always be sort of an underlying tone or, or something in the conversation would’ve already set that up in the context of.

you know, I’m done with it. So when he, because he named a few things like you just said. He talked about his friends who are still doing it and some very successfully, and he’s like, I don’t know how they still do it. I don’t, I don’t envy that at all anymore. In other words, the grind and the rat race and the cycles that you have to go through.

and he seemed very sincere when he said, I don’t really envy that anymore. And he’s just sort of tired of having to do a cycle of albums. He’d rather just make. The music that inspires [01:14:00] them and put it out and

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: go play shows when the opportunities come out. And I to him to say, I prefer these opening acts roles where there’s no pressure on me to be the one to fill the room.

And you know, it’s especially great if people are nice. Like there’s just a sincerity to all that of just accepting. That because for most people’s career, they don’t want to accept being anybody’s opener. Right? Like there’s,

alexi: Mm-hmm.

Glen Erickson: and so when you hear people talk about it as far down the career as he is, if there’s that kind of a reduction from the early days of, of things, it’s usually because they, there’s just a jadedness underneath it all, and he didn’t have it.

alexi: gonna say like, I mean, two things is like, I was kind of comparing it in my mind of like, um, like athletics, like you don’t have

Glen Erickson: Yep.

alexi: wanted to

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: you know, make the NHL. And then they go and like they play all the way up into like, you know, the league [01:15:00] before it. And then you, like, you never hear those guys be like, oh, like, you know, I actually didn’t wanna play NHL, I’m really happy with where I got.

You. Always hear them be like, either own it or have that jaded sense of like, whatever. Like, I didn’t really even want to, like, that’d be too much work.

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

alexi: kind of like

Glen Erickson: that’s a good one.

alexi: they’re just happy with where they made it.

Glen Erickson: I’d take that even a step further to say, I feel like where, and I don’t know if the guys would agree with me. I feel like where our band, the Wheat Pool got to was like, you know, junior and not quite to the show. Do you know what I mean? Like, we, it just always felt that way. I, I feel like Leeroy’s more like the guy who, you know, had a career.

for quite a while, but you know, if in hockey say the really good ones play to their mid late thirties and some guys are done by the time they’re 30 years old or it’s starting to wind down or whatever, whatever. Not to get into the metaphor too [01:16:00] much, but yeah, he seemed content with that version, whatever it was.

alexi: Yeah. And also like he even kind of took it a step further and was like content with how it’s been, but also actively being like, oh, I’m happy for that fact even like now. And was like, you know, thankful for like where he was living and the studio he has and like the family and the

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: his

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: and like. Uh, yeah, I just, I was like, that’s, I think very being so grounded in like who you have been and also who you are, like, especially in that scene. I just thought that was, know, kind of special. I.

Glen Erickson: Uh, I totally agree, and I think that, I just love the sincerity of him communicating all of that. And I guess the thing that struck me about the conversation and his arc and his career, which I think fed right into the part that you just pulled out, which is he, he’s seen a lot of rising and falling or, or not even, I won’t even call it rising and falling.

Let’s call it [01:17:00] in his pursuit up the mountain, he kept having his legs knocked out from underneath him, like over and over again. you know, and I think he’s kind of got to the point where it’s like, ah, I, I’m just gonna walk.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: okay with it just being a stroll wherever I’m going now instead of this mad pursuit up the hill.

So we’re just jumping all over metaphors tonight, but. That’s all right.

alexi: Apparently,

Glen Erickson: Anyhow, that was, uh, that was pretty cool. And I, I agree. I think that was a really cool message to hear. And I guess from my perspective, since you asked the question, I don’t hear, I don’t hear that sincerity a lot from somebody who is like, at the place where he’s at in his career.

You either hear people desperately trying to hold on. If that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Uh, you hear them talk about things like how they’re just struggling with redefining themselves. They use that term. You’ll see, or you hear people chirping about how they hate that. It’s all content [01:18:00] creation and social media and, and they’ll just talk really negatively about that.

And, and there’s just these angles that all tell you that they’re not a, in a good place. Because they still want the picture that they were chasing when they were young.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: But, he’s not that guy and I think it’s pretty cool.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: So, that’s pretty cool. Other than, um, our disappointing supper. let’s talk about two things really quickly. one is we’re into March now. And we started going to the gym together three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, right from the start of January, and we’re in March and we’re still doing it no matter what.

We’re getting up and going, how, how are you feeling about it? Good.

alexi: Yeah. Yeah. I’m feeling good. I love a routine. I love, yeah, I love, I’ve been wanting to, we’ve both been wanting to do that since we, we went together What? Before Covid?

Glen Erickson: No, during[01:19:00]

alexi: During

Glen Erickson: like when they would reopen the rec center and I had a membership. Yeah. And then we would go, remember we, I used to have to like go online and schedule your time. ’cause they would only allow so many people in.

alexi: Yep.

Glen Erickson: yeah, that’s when you and I would go, but

alexi: I was gonna say we did that and I was, mean, I was young like just feels like a long time ago. Five, six years now. And then as soon as we fell off,

Glen Erickson: it wasn’t five, six years, but you’re allowed to get the math wrong for Covid. It was probably four years ago that we started doing that.

alexi: 2020.

Glen Erickson: 2020 is when it started, but it wasn’t until 2021 that we, that it opened up again, that we could go back to the gym like that.

alexi: Oh, okay.

Glen Erickson: It’s okay. The, the math, it pandemic Math is not

alexi: it

Glen Erickson: accurate.

It’s okay.

alexi: no, but my point was We, we fell off of it eventually and then the entire time we were not going, [01:20:00] we talked about going

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: I’m glad that we found a time and space that works

Glen Erickson: especially the previous, especially the previous six months in which we were lamenting about ourselves and our inactivity and ability to do it. So it’s good. Like you aren’t feeling, I guess when I say are you, how are you feeling about it? I just mean, do you feel like you’re. Sometimes when you get back to it and you’re trying to do stuff, it’s not a, I don’t know if the plateau is the right word, but sometimes you hit that first plateau of I’ve been doing the same thing now for two months or more.

And,

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: you know, you get a little bored or you get a little, you’re feeling okay though, not, not that.

alexi: There’s parts of my, my kin kinesiology brain where I’m like critiquing myself and then,

Glen Erickson: Like your form or whether you’re choosing the right exercises, even maybe,

alexi: just like general routine and exercise at the gym. [01:21:00] And then I’m like able to affirm myself with like, you know, other knowledge. And then I’m like, you know what? At the end of the day, like I’m going to the gym three days a week.

I’m running once a week now outside. I’m like, I’m moving. It’s

Glen Erickson: You,

alexi: Like,

Glen Erickson: created some self affirmations to get you through.

alexi: Ugh.

Glen Erickson: Good.

alexi: to start.

Glen Erickson: You need some self affirmations. Okay, well that’s fair. I feel great. I’ve been like, oh yeah. I mean, I’ve been, I haven’t gotten bored. I haven’t plateaued. I’ve been introducing, I. A couple of new either machines or exercises or, I’ve been asking your brother ‘ cause he just loves being able to tell people what he knows about that stuff.

So he’s been helping me and I’ve been pushing the numbers up and yeah. So

alexi: Love it.

Glen Erickson: I’m really glad that we made that choice together.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: yeah. And then I think the last thing I was gonna tell you, but I think you already know, is I think I’m absolutely obsessed with that new song, flowers.

alexi: Oh, you

Glen Erickson: By Nathaniel Rale [01:22:00] Rateliff and Alan Gregory.

Alan Isikoff. I do that wrong every single time I go to say it. Greg Lee Gregory, Alan Isikoff. Oh my goodness.

alexi: Yes.

Glen Erickson: Did you know, did you know that his career went viral and broke open because of a song, called Big Black Cars that was on a McDonald’s commercial.

alexi: I did actually.

Glen Erickson: good for you.

alexi: Your knowledge? Well, I knew it was because of that song for a long time. Only recently did I learn why it was that song,

Glen Erickson: Hmm. Okay. Okay. Well, I don’t wanna dwell on that, but this song Flowers is so good and any, anybody, anybody who knows me, which is probably most of the people who only listen to the podcast so far, are still people, P who knew me, but know that the guitar tone of like

getting loud. breaking up almost screaming because you’re not because of volume, but because of how you’re playing the, the [01:23:00] tones and the frequencies together, and you have it so deeply washed in reverb and it swells is the thing that literally makes my soul melt.

Right. And.

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: This song, it comes outta nowhere and does that despite how incredible their voices sound together. I have a, I’m having right now a hard time believing some other song is going to replace it as my favorite in 2025. And it’s only the first week of March or whatever. So,

alexi: Yeah,

well,

Glen Erickson: that’s how much every time I listen to it, I’m liking it more, so

alexi: it’s, um,

Glen Erickson: It is going on the playlist is what I’m saying.

alexi: Well, obviously it’s going on the playlist. I was gonna say it’s your, it’s your, uh, you’re pulling a me you’re repeating the same

Glen Erickson: I am. It’s literally all I’ve been listening to, but yeah.

alexi: so good.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Okay. Well, speaking of the gym, you need to get to bed ’cause we’re gonna be up at 5 45 to go to the gym together tomorrow.

alexi: true.

Glen Erickson: So it’s a tough life for a girl.

alexi: it is, especially when you’re just a[01:24:00]

Glen Erickson: Just a girl.

alexi: Oh well.

Glen Erickson: Okay. Thank you for this. Appreciate your time.

alexi: Always. I’ll see you in the

Glen Erickson: I’ll see you in the morning. Bye-bye.

alexi: Bye.