Matthew Willox has a spark

ep11 – Matthew Willox has a spark

[00:00:00] Matthew Willox is an electronic artist. He looks punk rock. He sounds humble, yet earnest. We both work our day jobs together. We both have something to say about. Everything, if you’re serious about asking. I had no knowledge of his music career before already asking him to join me on the podcast. He is the mad scientist version of pure artistic passion and intellect obscured by the shield of a wild salt and pepper beard.

He is the musical Doc in Back To the Future. We couldn’t help but skip through. Classic Future is now digital heavy film favorites like Tron and Scott Pilgrim versus the World. The reference we missed though was oddly MacGyver. MacGyver was a 1985 TV show about a man who blended, unconventional problem solving with deep scientific handyman skills to continually escape life or death situations without the tools or means using whatever meager assets available and transforming them into the [00:01:00] perfect tools for the moment if the situation called for it.

MacGyver. Or Matthew Willox could likely turn a DeLorean into a time machine or an OG super NES joystick into a keyboard, let’s just call it a little bit genius, a little bit, not knowing any different. The madness in a mad scientist is the ability to continually see and hear, and feel things that don’t exist yet and bring them to life By any means usually, despite the lack of means.

Matthew Willox is an electronic artist with over 20 releases under various monikers such as Perpetual Music Machine Spark, Winnie the Shit WNY, and most recently matter warlocks. I. His music career includes the big highs of signing the record deal, winning a national laptop battle, and the deeper lows of losing everything along the way.

His people, possessions and purpose. He’s a brilliant digital [00:02:00] creator, effortlessly blending disciplines in mediums, intellect in kindness, and continues the dream of making music that will find a place. My name is Glen Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thank you for spending your time with us. This is Matthew Willox.

Glen Erickson: I

matthew willox : Don’t show this again,

Glen Erickson: Matthew, that you showed up with a, uh, looks like a classic SM 58

matthew willox : this is an SM 58 and I knew you were gonna say something about it.

Glen Erickson: You did Well, I just think it’s perfect. Like, um, there’s just something so analog about, uh, who you are in your career and then choosing the SM 58. I love it, but

matthew willox : That’s, that’s

Glen Erickson: good.

matthew willox : really funny that you mention that. ’cause people are always like, you’re the, you’re the analog [00:03:00] guy. And I’m like, no, I’m really, I’m the complete opposite of that. Like, I’m this guy, right? I’m, and to the listeners, I’m,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : I’m holding up a piece of electronics.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. You’re, you’re the computer chip guy. okay. Well, I mean, that’s an interesting point because like, there’s a version of electronic that feels now, like we’re talking 2025, right? That

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: analog. And I think we just, people mix up the terms.

Is that a fair assessment? Like they’re thinking analog, like the old version of blips and bleeps the same way, like analog being, I’m gonna, you know, record like live off the floor into a mic of whatever comes out of this amp and however this amp, you know, whether it got really hot or didn’t get hot that day is gonna change the sound.

Like we talk about analog in recording, but

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: an electronic music guy, so yeah, you’re running things through computer chips and you’ve, and I want to talk about this with you, about your fascination simply between [00:04:00] this merger, between, you know, these, these set of devices or tools that we use in that world and. Our own versions of reality or however we might wanna call it, but yeah. But I think that you started in a time when now people are sort of calling like the, the analog version of electronic music. Is that fair? Or Tell me if I’m super off base.

matthew willox : Okay, so way, way back in 1998, I think, somewhere around there I got an email from a guy and he’s like, how are you getting your recordings? So crystal clear, like, he’s like, you’re recording stuff. And I’m like, I pull it up into the mixer and I crank it all the way up and there’s no noise on your recording.

And so I’m like, oh, well, it’s all completely digitally rendered. Like there’s no sound, right?

Glen Erickson: yeah,

matthew willox : it doesn’t have to go through the air or through any electricity. It just literally gets written to a cd, like from the memory of the [00:05:00] computer. And he’s like, what? And I was like, yeah, actually I have to add noise to stuff to make it seem more realistic.

And I kind of think of it as like on the one extreme with analog, you have all this imperfection and, and problems that you’re trying to manage. Okay? Like your cat bumping into the microphone stand, and so you have chaos and you’re trying to reign in all the chaos. And then in digital, it’s like Tron world.

Everything’s perfect, everything’s on a grid, and you’re actually trying to be like, can we add some chaos to Tron World to kind of make it more natural seeming and kind of like more human? And I kind of think that that

Glen Erickson: as old as you and I, Tron was a Disney smash hit of basically a human living inside of,

matthew willox : a computer That’s right. Yeah. A guy gets a, yeah, a guy gets, gets zapped by this gun and he gets digitized and he finds out there’s like people living inside the computer. It sounds really dumb, but it’s really cool. and so I, I really, [00:06:00] if you look, if you look at anything that I do like from any kind of art standpoint, it’s like, how do I get the computer to do noise that’s real?

Like that, that feels like real chaos. feels like real mountains or feels like real sand or feels like a real tone that would really come outta something. And so there’s kind of like little tricks that I’ve learned along the way to do that sort of thing. And I think when people start coming to me like, you’re the analog guy.

They’re just hearing these like things that figured out make you think something’s analog. And now I use that.

Glen Erickson: mm

matthew willox : It’s just all tricks. It’s just all rendering tricks.

Glen Erickson: yeah. Isn’t that sort of a really cool thing about Yeah. That we are so frequently trying to. these elements of reality? Well, it just, the tension, right? Like the amount of effort and money that has gone into what your guy emailed you about in 2008 of like eternal effort to have the most perfect, clean, pristine sound, right?

Like [00:07:00] sound engineers, sound snobs. I remember years ago in Edmonton on hundred 24th Street was a, a, a place, a store called Audio Arc. It was like one of the, the highest end

matthew willox : I know it.

Glen Erickson: snob, the most expensive, uh,

matthew willox : HiFi equipment. Yeah,

Glen Erickson: high Fi. And I used to, uh, my first design job, I used to do the newsletters and brochures for that place.

But so this, this eternal like pursuit of this pristine sound. And yet we’ve spent maybe not the same amount of money, but the same amount of effort group of people have also spent Trying to like, it’s like when you get a brand new pair of white Adidas and then you scuff ’em on the curb on the way to school.

’cause you don’t possibly wanna look like you’re wearing brand new shoes. Like they have

matthew willox : kinda,

Glen Erickson: And, and we do that to our music, right? Like we’re, we’re scuffing the shit out of our, out of our music. And I’m the same way. So I absolutely love that and identify it with, I love the real textures. I’ve, [00:08:00] I’ve been trying to find, a quote that I placed on my Instagram, a long time ago, and I’m having trouble finding it, so I apologize if I looked distracted.

But I had made this quote, Essentially, I’ll paraphrase what the quote was, which talking about the beauty of like the brokenness part, uh, in sound and how, how we end up trying to like retro or the inclusion and the obsession with retro. And I sort of referenced that with this of analog. The, pursuit of that, is really our, our desire and our need to sort of connect to was that deep human element. In other words, the, the quote said something about, you know, the, the sound of a voice that’s breaking it can’t contain the emotion it’s trying to get out. So it cracks, or, or an amp or an amp.

Heating and overheating and breaking up led to distortion, which literally became. You know, a foundation [00:09:00] to a guitar sound or tone that for decades now has been iterated all over the place and or,

matthew willox : then,

Glen Erickson: tape. Or tape his right. Or

matthew willox : yep. Yep.

Glen Erickson: this stuff in recording the tape, his made it feel, and we use the term warm for two decades.

I’ve heard everyone say, I want it to feel warmer. And it’s what they want is they want the thing that we used to think was shit. And we, and now we want it back.

matthew willox : They’re used to it, right? You’re used to this feeling or this sound and, and doesn’t it kind of feel a little bit dehumanizing when the like engineer guy comes along and is like, well, that’s just this, you know, transfer curve. You know? Right. And you know, like you have these conversations.

Glen Erickson: it for you.

matthew willox : I, well, like, you know, and like, I, I, I really would never do that to somebody.

And, and I, I at least try to stay out of like, debates of analog versus digital. And the reason why is because, [00:10:00] you know, once, like if someone likes something, like why do they have to explain it to you? Right? Like, well explain to me like, like why you like analog. And they’re like, well, I just like the sound of it.

You’re like, yeah, but it’s not perfect. Right? And now you’re just the guys at the Hi-Fi store again trying to upsell you on something

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : right. And

Glen Erickson: in high

matthew willox : right.

Glen Erickson: the, you’re,

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: in, in high fidelity

matthew willox : Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, like if someone was, like, if someone came to me and was like, Matthew, like which do you prefer? Analog or digital? Or like, what do you think, you know, like, I like, okay, I have to pick, you know, like, like, you know, are we talking like, like is it like a $200 synthesizer?

I can go buy it long and McQuaid, or is it like a yamas 80 sitting in like a museum somewhere? Okay. Like,

absolutely. Okay, perfect. So I, this is exactly what I knew would happen with you, Matthew, because we could just literally rabbit hole in a [00:11:00] second. So, quick

Oh yeah.

Glen Erickson: Matthew Willis, we are coworkers. This is how I’ve met you. You’re actually fairly recent to my life,

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: the privilege of working together. When you sent me over some information about yourself, you talked about how somebody at one point drew a picture of you staring off into a distance and your head was surrounded by musical notes and the guy didn’t even know that you made music, which I thought was really fitting because I. Also had this immediate sense of view, not particularly to music, but of a creative, and there’s, uh, I mean I’ve been like the vice chair of the Edmonton Arts Council.

I’ve been the chair of, uh, Alberta Musics Provincial Association of, was a year that I sat on juries and award grant funding, like all of that stuff for over 650 applicants. Like I’ve been so saturated, um, with creative work, but I can [00:12:00] count maybe on one hand, Matthew, the number of times I’ve met somebody, and I immediately knew is who I would define as a creative, you’re one of these guys.

So I knew it. Um, it, it’s just you have that aura and if somebody visualized it as musical notes around a guy staring off in the distance, that’s pretty cool too. Um, so I.

matthew willox : I have resting space face,

Glen Erickson: Resting Space. Space.

matthew willox : yeah,

Glen Erickson: a good acronym though? Um, so, um, so I just knew that I thought, and then we’ve gotten into some conversations and I love them all and I thought this would be really great.

So, uh, really quickly, before I end up in too many rabbit holes, I want to just paint the background. ’cause I also love your story that you provided for me and I looked into, and I love this because I didn’t know your story and the truth of it, Matthew, is like, if we didn’t work together, I wouldn’t probably know who you are or your body of work or what this story is.

And maybe that [00:13:00] is why it feels so appealing in line with all the stories that I hope get told during the podcast. And,

matthew willox : yeah. Go for it. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: the truth is like we can often talk to people who. Whose stories sound like somewhere near a top of a mountain, and yet you’ve gone up and down a number of times.

And, uh,

matthew willox : the mountain analogy.

Glen Erickson: it’s a

matthew willox : It’s exactly what it is.

Glen Erickson: It’s a different side of the story. And I think it’s incredible also because, a person who just walks through your day with a lot of optimism and clearly, and, and a lot of pieces feels like, so I, I hope to find a little more of how that came about.

So you’re, as you said, you’re an elect. I know this is like super top level. call you an

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: musician. Obviously there’s a million sub genres, uh, and you’ve probably dipped your way through multiple ones, uh, in your time. But you, you started all the way back in the nineties. You already sort of referenced that.

We’re [00:14:00] we’re, I think similar ages. So I very developmental, crucial time of the nineties. Uh, it had a definite imprint. you probably, uh, I’m pretty sure, you know, the more of the people who understand the mainstream versions of that would probably recognize that a guy like Trent Resner, had a

matthew willox : I love Trent Ner.

Glen Erickson: pretty good influence on who you are and what you are making. Uh, as a creative or bands like Skinny Puppy, uh, are probably a little more relative to a lot of people than, than the ones that would

matthew willox : They were Canadian. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: there you go. Canadian. Um, so, but you’ve, you’ve recorded and released under several pseudonym. Um, you listed some for me. Perpetual Music Machine is what you started

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: under.

Uh, you’ve done a lot over the longest span of time under the name Spark.

matthew willox : That’s right.

Glen Erickson: my favorite is Winnie. Winnie. The shit

matthew willox : [00:15:00] Yes. Everyone loves Winnie the shit.

Glen Erickson: Well, yeah, it sounds so good, man.

matthew willox : It’s so punky. It’s such a punk name.

Glen Erickson: and it’s so on point. Um, WNYI don’t know if that stands for something in

matthew willox : It just stands. It is just, I just see this is like, this is a good, like I was trying to clean up the name, Winnie the shit into something, just a little bit into something just a little bit nicer. Right. So I’d be like, Winnie.

Glen Erickson: WNY short for Winnie.

matthew willox : Yeah. And we liked that at the time, like, you know, like, I don’t like it anymore.

But at the time it worked.

Glen Erickson: And then the last, uh, the last pseudonym you use is Matter warlocks, which you say is sort of the most recent iteration. Yes.

matthew willox : it’s brand new. And I, like, I was like, I was trying to come up with something that connected to my name, like as a person,

Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.

matthew willox : And I did. I like, you know, it’s like, it’s kind of like a cliche, actually, it’s kind of a cliche when you, you, you sort of hit a certain age in electronic music and you’re like, that’s it.

I’m like, no more names or pseudo aliases or [00:16:00] hacker aliases. I’m just going to use my name. And I was kind of like, I don’t really want to do that.

Glen Erickson: But you,

matthew willox : there’s nothing wrong with my name.

Glen Erickson: No, but you

matthew willox : Like, yeah.

Glen Erickson: to the name. You weren’t like using the word bunny or something weird in your name or, yeah. Yeah. You weren’t,

matthew willox : That’s right.

Glen Erickson: it. Totally

matthew willox : Yes. So, you know, and then I just kind of like, it just, you just want something that you can kind of stick with. And it’s, it’s really funny, that the name matter warlocks kind of just makes me a little uncomfortable too, you know, like, like, and it, like, I have no explanation for it, but every time I hear it, I’m like, you know, I like wince a little bit.

Like, and I’m like, Hey, you know what that is? That’s just me feeling vulnerable. That’s me coming up with an idea and putting it out in front of people and them seeing it and me being like, like, like the uncomfortableness you’re feeling is that you just really like it. It’s okay. Just like let it go.

Right.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. No, that’s great. So [00:17:00] yeah, so there’s like this thing about your story and your music, which is just so, I don’t know what the word is, like riveting to me. Like, I feel like I wanna tell

matthew willox : It was riveting to me. Yeah,

Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, and maybe it’s because I didn’t know it before. I mean, there’s obviously that element, and I’ve known you without knowing this story, and I think it’s really cool. but I’ve, I’ve been able to observe different people’s careers that, as we said, go up and down the mountain

But, anyway, I appreciate the time doing this. We’ll, like make our way through the whole thing. your fascination primarily, I think with the blending between, you know, the use of electronic, I know you say devices for lack of a better term, to create art, because for you, as you’ve self described, it’s not just music, it’s music and visual primarily. it’s some way of translating, [00:18:00] Things that are. You know, either happening in real time in your world and environment back into the machine and then back out to some creative expression is, is quite an interesting cycle. And you know, I, and for some people that’s all that might be is just a version of, I like to play with these things and do this stuff for you.

matthew willox : Absolutely.

Glen Erickson: deeper and more philosophical even. Um, dare I even say, maybe spiritual if I’m, if I’m guessing, uh, that

matthew willox : right on the money.

Glen Erickson: yeah. Okay. That

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: and that’s why you’re a lifer in this, um, which is so great. So you start

matthew willox : And terrifying all at the same time.

Glen Erickson: ter well, it is terrifying, right? Um, so you start doing all of this and exploring this. Right. From a young age, you have like a family of sort of creative people around you that are, that are making things and expressing. So it’s an easy in right, [00:19:00] an easy entry point you, and you start making stuff, but you’re drawn to the electronic stuff right away. So I’m, I’m,

matthew willox : Which was super controversial in the inside, the in like, or how, like, you know, I remember

Glen Erickson: it

matthew willox : in the Willax bubble it was like, you’re gonna make music on a computer. That’s stupid. You know? Like, not probably being too hard on myself, but yeah, like, it, it’s like, it know my, my uncles and they, they played a lot of music.

My brother played the guitar and you know, we had like a family that would really share music and I remember listening to. I think it was like Shine on You Crazy Diamond by Pink Floyd. And you know, I was like, oh, I love this like, like analog synthesizer. I know who all that stuff is now, but at the time I was like, what is that?

And you know, they’re all like, I hate this part. You know,

Glen Erickson: That’s crazy.

matthew willox : just get me to the, just [00:20:00] get me to like the guitars and the singing and the, and the folk music ness of it, which is all great too. Um, but yeah, they were like really not, like, not bohemian against it, like, not like in opposition or anything like that, but like, why would you wanna make this?

You know, like, why would you put this on a, this is, this is like, this is like Euro dance record, new wave stuff. What do we want this on our, on our Pink Floyd for kind of thing. And,

Glen Erickson: uh, in

matthew willox : or it’s disco maybe.

Glen Erickson: in 1986, I, in high school, I wrote a paper in my first computer science class, so I. wrote it on about midi, about the explosion of MIDI in 1986.

matthew willox : Nice.

Glen Erickson: um, and nobody, and I got like, I think a hundred, ’cause my teacher had no idea what any of this stuff was and couldn’t tell how much I plagiarized from a long McQuaid magazine. Um, but, and,

matthew willox : of the most successful technologies ever developed. Like MIDI is like one of the, the [00:21:00] greatest pieces of technology ever.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And we had a, a, is it the Roland Juno, um, at

matthew willox : Like a Juno 1 0 6.

Glen Erickson: to, yeah, I was allowed to sign it out and bring it home. And I would just play with the, like those algorithms where you just like, press a key and then it would just start going and you would change all of like the LFO and all of those, you know, all of those things that were on a dial.

But, um,

matthew willox : Was this the Juno? Was this, was this the Juno 1 0 6 that they had at Vic Comp? Did they have, was it there? Was it, was that where you.

Glen Erickson: at Vic Comp, I was in Saskatchewan, so this was

matthew willox : oh yeah. Okay.

Glen Erickson: of in the late eighties in Saskatchewan. Electronic music things were terribly earthy then. But So you’re, you’re in a family of guitar and folk guys who,

matthew willox : So yeah, you don’t, you don’t really notice it, but you’re. That’s right. Yeah. And you totally notice it, but you’re just around music and you, you, you’re trying to get access to [00:22:00] the things that you want to do, and, but you’re a kid, you know what I mean? Like, it’s like you, you know, to your parents, like you wanting a Corg M1 so that you can go and make, you know, push it by salt and pepper is basically the same thing as you wanting a Super Nintendo, right?

So you’re like, mom, mom,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : get me one of these things. And they’re, you know, like,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : you don’t, you don’t know that a Corg M1 is like $2,000 and a Super Nintendo is like 300 and the Super Nintendo is already expensive, right? So like, there’s no way you’re getting this, but you think maybe you got a shot if you, if you like, you know, put on your like, biggest puppy dog.

I can go. Please. Come on. Right? Not happening.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : But what we did get was a computer and, um, very shortly afterwards, internet access, like very early, uh, through the library, um, got onto the internet. So I had like, it was basically on the internet since day one. It’s really kind of funny too, [00:23:00] ’cause like I will see sort of different sort of waves in the internet and I’ll be like, oh yeah, we like, this was like this time or whatever.

Glen Erickson: Yep.

matthew willox : It’s like really blew my mind when the internet took off and got popular. I was like, you guys were just picking on me for being on this for like the last 10 years, you know, and now here you all are,

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

matthew willox : wrestl, right? And um, like, uh, you’re always on that computer and I’m like, well, you know, I’m looking at stuff right?

And so that actually afforded me a lot of opportunity to see a lot of things that were going on in cutting edge computing at the time. So obviously this has a lot to do with like, what I end ended up going into as a career, because you’re around all these ideas that are basically from universities.

Like the internet in the early time was like all universities connected and all the people who were on there were like university students or like people in computing. And so all the things that they were talking [00:24:00] about was like computer stuff now, you know, I’m like 14 or 15 or whatever and I’m like, I have no idea what they’re talking about.

But you go and look at it and you’re like, cool. Or like, Hey, these guys made a game and it fits into like, you know, the super tiny file size and you go play that and you’re like, wow. And. that scene, it’s called the demo scene. If you look it up, it’s called the demo scene. That’s where my first musical instrument, which was this tracker software came out of, and it’s basically video game music.

You know, like, that’s like the best way to describe it, to like, you know, you’re using this like super low level technology to arrange data, essentially. Like, I mean, it looks like a spreadsheet. If I showed it to you, you’d be like, how is this not just Excel? You’re like, yeah. You know, uh, it, it is, it kind of is like Excel and so you’re making, and so.

Glen Erickson: music. That’s like, uh, I’ve never heard that term.

matthew willox : Yeah. And so here you have like a family of people who are beautiful. [00:25:00] They play bass guitars, they play real guitars, they play upright bass, they have the flute, and you’re like, check it out the computer.

Glen Erickson: Bleep,

matthew willox : You know? And so it’s not even like, it’s not even like you were like the punk, it was more like you were like this troll under the bridge who was like, you can make music with computers.

Right? And, yeah, I don’t know. It’s, it just, it just didn’t click. you know, at first I sort of feel like, I don’t think it ever really ever clicked with my dad. I feel, I still feel like maybe even to this day, like, you do work on the internet?

And I’m like, yeah. It’s like, what even is that, you know? I’m like, well, you know, when you check your email anyways, like, we could go down this rabbit hole. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: that joke that we, what are we even doing

matthew willox : Yeah. Right.

Glen Erickson: but you moved on. Obviously it’s paid off. Like we can say, we can say thankfully for everybody, it’s paid off like. and I work together. We have jobs. We

matthew willox : yep.

Glen Erickson: the, the gery paid off. But so you

matthew willox : Absolutely.

Glen Erickson: and [00:26:00] I, you, you sort of listed like that you put some things up on mp3.com in 98,

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: at, at that time, that was like, I mean, I don’t know.

I, I always feel like I have to frame this and maybe I don’t, but it feels that’s really still birth of the internet time. Like I made my first website in 1995 and nobody knew what websites were. And mp3.com coming along is basically the immediate birth of MP threes. And, so

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: those who were online, which isn’t like everybody now, right.

So it was still felt like a subset. They were clamoring to find everything they could find, And so that first putting things up there had, a pretty positive impact. For you, is that a kind of a kickstart kind of time for you?

matthew willox : It is. And I had an 80 megabyte hard drive at the time. And to make an MP three, I had a program that was actually just a piece of research [00:27:00] technology from a white paper, from like some company called Frown Hoffer in Germany, that that was the company that invented MP three. And so, you know, you would get this thing and you could take your sound recording.

That was like eating up a quarter of your hard drive and like turn it into this little thing, right? And so mp3.com became kind of like a second hard drive. Where I would just make the song, put it into MP three and upload it there. And I was like, oh, now it’s on this thing. I don’t need to have it on my computer anymore.

It’s like up there and like, you know, very shortly after upgraded and got a lot more stuff. But, um, at that very initial time, that was kind of what it was to me. It was like I could finish something and put it up on this website or, or even before that would, would be on BBSs and stuff like that. Not even as MP threes, but as like the actual mod files that I was making in the tracker.

And, you know, just was in the habit of just like making something and being like, done up on [00:28:00] that thing. ’cause it just couldn’t sit around. It just didn’t have the space. It didn’t have like a, you know, three terabyte hard drive on my computer that just load up with like, you know, infinity.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : So Only sort of like very, like very shortly after that started to think of like, you know, ’cause it’s, you know, the website’s asking you, like, put a bio picture here, like, what’s your title image look like? And I start making that stuff just because it’s sort of like, you know, you, you log into your little MP three.com thing and it looks empty and you’re like, okay, well let’s dress it up a little bit with some stuff.

And that’s where kind of like all, and then I’m like, well I need like a cool name. You know, like, like I actually figured that name out in this room that I’m in right now. Um, like, yeah, with a dictionary. I had this huge dictionary, it was like a really old school dictionary and you know, was just like literally reading every word in the dictionary, going like, what can I do?

And I came across Spark and I was like, ah, that’s really cool. It’s short, it’s punchy, it’s got lots of good angles on it, you know, I can work with that. and [00:29:00] that was it. Away we go.

Glen Erickson: Hmm. I mean, everybody, you know, in that, embryonic stage of music, there’s a bunch of things that play, right? It’s like you’re just trying to get better. You’re just trying to get good enough that people will care maybe. And you need that. You want that validation. then you’re looking so actively for all the places you can actually get it into, the people who feel about music the way you do, right?

So there’s a sense of looking for community. then if any of that happens, you’re also starting to feel like, like what are the possibilities? And so, you know, when I look at, you know, you got to a point where you said uh, all of a sudden it went from just releasing some of my music or putting it up there to, now I’m being asked to score. Projects for students at MIT or, or music on TaeKwonDo CD ROMs and producing tracks for the oiler scoreboard. Right. Or, or these things happening, you know, which is like, you’re out of the bedroom, like you’re, [00:30:00] that’s out of the bedroom shit. Right. And that’s when, the, to me, the first flip to another level, and then you go from up there to getting to a, a another level of a place.

Right. So what, because I’m not familiar in electronic music, I’m wondering in your feeling of the trajectory, what were the things that you were having to discover, you know, a, to build the community and the validation, but also the opportunities where the, what ifs started becoming bigger and more real for you?

matthew willox : Yeah. And okay, so, you know, I start doing these projects and, and like it’s. It’s really hard to describe this because my, like, lead up to actually getting a tool to write music with was so long. I had already like really educated myself on what music was like. I already had kind of like habits of criti critical listening and being like, what is that chord?

You know what I mean? And like figuring all these different things out about music and identifying sounds and equipment that was being used, uh, to make music. [00:31:00] Uh, like there’s a site called Hyper Reel and on there you could go and look up a song, you know, so you could, you could go and look up Headlight the Hole and be like, what instruments were used in making this right?

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

matthew willox : And you know, and then it would have like samples of them. So, so you know, if it was like a, you know, like an eliss, you know, DR 16 or whatever that, I can’t even remember what it’s called. Like, it’s like this like bog standard drum machine they had through the eighties and nineties. You could just be like, oh, that’s the instrument that’s doing that.

Here’s the samples of it. If I wanna make drums that sound like this, just go and grab this. So by the time I started making tracks, they were already pretty good. You know, it wasn’t like I started making music and everyone around me was like, Ugh. Right. It’s like there was like a taste level there that I already had.

And like, it’s kind of funny, I, I kind of think to myself sometimes, like, you came out fully forged, I’m gonna die fully forged. And like, you’re just kind of made out of metal. Like, you’re never going to change. You know, you’re never gonna get better, you’re never gonna [00:32:00] get worse. It’s just, you just are right.

And I don’t, I don’t think that that’s actually true. Like, there’s like a plasticity in your brain that kind of makes it seem that way, but

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

matthew willox : that’s how it helped at the time. So when I started making this stuff, uh, you know, for CD ROMs and I started making stuff for the oiler scoreboard, this was like people who were Remy, you know, friends and family who heard this stuff and were like.

This guy can actually write music. Like, why don’t we just get him to do it? You know, he’s a kid, right? Just,

Glen Erickson: Yep,

matthew willox : hey, we need, we need, you know, an hour of music for this thing. Can you do that? And you’re like, sure. Right. And you just go and do it. And like, you’re in such a habit of just making music and putting on something and, and releasing it.

And I remember buying my first like CD burner and going with my dad to like CompuServe or whatever it was, the computer store that was downtown. And, and being like, you know, he’s like, my son needs a CD burner, you know, and, you know, he has no idea what I’m doing or what the hell this thing is, right? [00:33:00] And, and like it hooks up to the computer with like the serial port and have like, you know, like, I’m like, no, I somehow I know exactly what to do, hook all this stuff up and burn CDs with it is great.

Play ’em in the car. And, like, it was just very natural, like very organic. Like I’m making the thing, I’m making the thing. People start using that thing basically for what they’re doing. Right. So you kind of grow in the direction of like you are creating a creative resource, I guess for other people.

That’s a kind of like a, a really like mechanical reductionist way of looking at it, but like people are like, Hey, this is great. I’ll use this in my thing. Thanks kid.

Glen Erickson: Well, let

matthew willox : You know?

Glen Erickson: me frame it Matthew against, though the typical, I’ll just frame, is it maybe Canadian, but maybe North American music journey, which is you’re, making music or art and you’re trying to force everybody to come to you though. Right. Like the, that typical story is gotta book shows, I gotta try and get gigs, I gotta have people watch me.

I’d have to [00:34:00] get them to go to the record store and buy my music or download it what you’re describing as like your music is going out and becoming a part of all these things other people are doing and it’s giving you an opportunity to do more.

matthew willox : Yeah. And you know, I think I always knew what the hell I was doing. Like I, you know, I, I knew what I was doing. Okay. And I always do, but I don’t always know what it’s for. Do you know what, you know what I mean?

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

matthew willox : Like. I’m like, I’m gonna make this thing and it needs to be XY Like, I know exactly what it’s like, the visions in my head, I see it in there.

But that’s pretty much it. Like once it’s made, uh, you know what the purpose of it is that’s larger than that. It makes like, I just wouldn’t, I wouldn’t even occur to me. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: never stopped you. Is that what you’re saying though? Like that question has never stopped you from making it, right?

matthew willox : People ask me that question, like, I’ll make something, you know, I’ve even made stuff at, [00:35:00] at work and people have been like, well, what’s the point of this? Right? Like, why have you made this? And I’m like, I don’t know. Right. I had the idea, I did it. like once that thing is there, you know, usually when I, when I actually, you know, put my mind to it and actually like, you know, make it, and I’m gonna make this thing, it’s beautiful.

I love it. It’s, and it feels that way for a really long time. You know, like, uh, like if I make something a, a piece of computer art or anything, like, I’ll listen to it, like, or, or look at it like 10 years later I’ll be like, man, you know, this still hits the way I, the way it did the first time I made it.

And I think that the larger purpose of things, to be honest, and maybe this is kind of a, uh, an interesting way of putting it, it just never seemed like to me like I had any chance of going anywhere to do anything. You know? And I think a lot of people were telling me that at the time, you know, kid, if you don’t do good in algebra, like you’re gonna like end up [00:36:00] on the street. you’ll be like, like that guy pushing that shopping cart. And this was like the way people would communicate, like my level of activities to, of like for school things to me. Like I was like, you know, I wasn’t really that great in school.

I was smart. I could do well on tests, but I was like, you know, I’d get to school and be like, how soon can I get outta here?

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

matthew willox : Right. Um, except in art classes, which I was great computer class, which I just like destroyed. I was like amazing at that stuff. And it just, you know, like obviously was just something that I had, I had around.

And you know, I think that as I moved through those different layers up into like when somebody, like when, when Mike Adu, who runs the record label, N five md, that’s was my first release, came to me. He came to me. And he said, Hey, I wanna put this song of yours that you put up on MP three to com on my label.

It’s gonna be the first track on the first thing. And you know, I’ve got the, I’ve actually got the, the mini disc right here. Yeah. And so it’s act, it’s actually a mini disc. Right.

Glen Erickson: that’s a

matthew willox : You know, uh, And they’re, they’re [00:37:00] really cool. I wish they, I wish, you know, they’d stick around and, I know that, uh, like the idea of like sending in a press kit, like, you know, it’s really funny.

I do all that stuff now. Like any musical activity that you did as a teenager that you wanted to get your music known I am doing now as an adult. And it’s like, you know, ’cause you’re like, oh, it’d be really cool to play this show. It’d be really cool to play this festival. And, you know, you’ve got all this work behind you that you’ve done.

But, you know, I I, I feel like for whatever reason I was, I was, I. Uh, and I even feel that way in my career. It’s like I was just on a trajectory that was being pushed up by a larger movement, you know, this sort of like digitalization of everything and, that really catapulted me into places.

Just, just early adopter, just like going in and grabbing that first technology. And I think that, you know, I still tried to do that like maybe like four or five years ago, like with stuff like, you know, it’s embarrassing to even kind of bring it up, but like, you know, I try to make like NFTs and stuff like [00:38:00] that, and I thought, well, this is the latest technology.

This is the latest thing, and this is that next bubble. This is the next kind of like wave to ride essentially. And I mean, I don’t, I don’t really know how I, well, I mean, I know that I don’t like the people who run those companies, so I don’t really, you know, I don’t really engage with that. But, you know, that’s the, That technological era might be coming to an end. You know, even with stuff like ai, it’s like, how can I use AI to like, you know, promote music? Like what? I get it to make the music now, like I’m not gonna do that. and so, yeah. And so maybe that wave is over and, and the, the, the flip side that is now all that stuff that you learn to do as a teenager and, and, and work as a band and promote your music.

I have to learn now from scratch after already having a career in music like that. Just sort of like, like by grace and by effort got given to me and really, you know, I think the, the tale is, I didn’t [00:39:00] even know what the hell to do with it. It wasn’t like, there’s like this really, like a, friend of mine, Uh, max Uli, he’s a dj. I was playing a show with him, and he comes up to me and he’s like, you know, man, you had like, he, you had this town, this town being Vancouver, and the palm of your hand, and you threw it all away.

And I was like, what are you talking about? It’s like, dude, I can barely make my rent every month. You know what I mean? It’s like, if I had a whole town like Vancouver in the palm of my hand, I feel like there would be some sort of message back from that town that like, we’re gonna, you know, this, like, you’re gonna make it.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : We’ve got you. Right? And it was like, there was nothing, it’s like every single thing that I did, I’d always have to like, you know, you, you have to put the, you do the work, you put the workout, and you see what comes back and you know, if nothing comes back, you don’t. Do anything, right? Like, like, you know what I mean?

Like, there’s that next step and, and you know, I feel like if I had had a mentor or a coach or someone who [00:40:00] cared, like anyone who cared enough to kind of talk to me every day and be like, well, like why don’t you try this? Why don’t you try this? And that’s what my friend Jen Pearson was kind of like, very early on in Vancouver, like, Hey, come play this show.

Hey, come do this. But I was already hitting the bricks before that, like giving my CDs to nightclubs and be like, Hey, I play this kind of music, you know, like, would you guys want to have me do a live set or something like that. And it was like, you know, guy in the coffee shops like, jerk, come in next week on Thursday, play your show.

Right? And you know, like, you know, you’re already, you’re already, you know, you’re doing that sort of thing and you’re on a label. So that carries with it a certain kind of, uh, you know, your reputation kind of per

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : Yeah. Right. You, you know, like you’re, you’re, you’re validated essentially. you know, but I think.

Glen Erickson: Matthew, is like this, like even back to the start of what you were saying here,

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: It made me feel like this age old, uh, debate about art for art’s sake. but really what you got into describing to me is how, you know, you’re being able to look back right now and say, I was just riding a wave.

matthew willox : Hmm.

Glen Erickson: this has[00:41:00]

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: a lot over musical history of, who, who was at the top of that wave, or at least in that wave, Because when you talk to the people that became famously, or significantly attached to those waves, they always talk about all the people didn’t get known, That were sort of the foundation for them. And I guess when I read about your stuff, and I hear you say that, I feel like, do you ever feel like you were a part of a foundation, maybe, that a lot of other people maybe got a little more significance or career. Out of, because the way they did it, maybe like what you’re describing is the other tension between, I was just making the stuff, I wasn’t figuring out all the other things, like the business of it.

Like you’re having to figure out now that you know, my promotional work is like maybe more than 50% of the time it takes to be able to do anything with my music. And if you weren’t doing that at the time when you were just creating, and opportunities were [00:42:00] coming to you because you were a part of a wave, it sounds like you’re

matthew willox : I think

Glen Erickson: I missed out on things because that’s all it was for me then.

matthew willox : Yes, absolutely. And so I think that, you know, when someone says, Hey, you know, I wanna put your music in this thing, and you’re like, great, I. Here you go. I, I make music. I’m a resource for this stuff. Come get it. Um, when someone’s like, Hey, I wanna put you on my label and I want it to be this song, I really love it.

I’m like, go for it. Right. Um, you know, I’m, I, you know, I don’t wanna be like, I wasn’t thinking of the business aspects of it, but like, let’s put it this way, the business aspects of those, of that music was like, if I, if you were to like, be like at that time, Hey Matthew, what do you think you need to do as a business person to make this music, you know, more popular?

I think the answer would’ve just been hilariously oversimplified. And I’m like, well, I need it to get it in front of more people. Right. And you’re like, okay. Like, how are you gonna do that? [00:43:00] Right. And I would’ve had absolutely no idea what to do.

Glen Erickson: so common, Matthew. Like I’ve

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: programs now,

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: that’s literally, that’s the early answer. That’s always the same thing. They’re like, how do I get this in front of more people? And they think that that’s the solution.

matthew willox : But, but here’s the thing though. It’s like I had no excuse. I worked in marketing, I worked at a huge advertising agency, so I was just, I was just a goddamn kid, you know what I mean? Like, I had no clue what the hell I was doing. Right. And I knew, I knew that if you got the tool into my hand and you were like, you know, if you gave me the Samurai sword and you were like, go cut that thing, no problem.

Where the Samurai sword came from or who the thing I’m cutting is no clue. Right? and you know, uh, guys like, uh, Patrick Didi, he was a DJ in Vancouver, Jenson, uh, who you know, was my friend, and they had a night, or they worked on a night called Void. And they would bring in big artists. Like they would bring in like, uh, like warp records artists, um, like plaid or square pusher.[00:44:00]

You know, these people who in my scene of music were like the, the big stars. And you know, they were like. Hey, you should play at our night. You know? And to me it just was like, yeah, cool. Let’s go have fun. And like, it’s a, it’s, I’m gonna go play it at a nightclub and it, you know, I make this art and, and

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : it is seriously, like, was that innocent?

And I had very little opinions about why you should do it. Or who you should do it for. Just that like, it was just kind of like, man. And I think like when I was a kid, I was just so lonely and so lost that I just like got into like making techno for people on the internet and I kept doing that and eventually they were like, here’s a stage.

Right.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : And I think that there is, there is a real beauty to that. Like I think that, you know, when you think about that and, and you know, like, uh, I, I hope some of my friends end up, end up listening to this and they, and they hear me talk about them. [00:45:00] Because I think they did a lot for me, and I don’t think other than playing those shows ever really had an opportunity to do anything for them.

And so that kind of creates this asymmetric relationship where it’s like you, you’re, you’re taking right, but you don’t know that that’s what you’re doing. You’re just sort of like, yeah, we’re cool. We we’re the cool people making stuff, you know? And like, here’s a stage and like, let’s rock and roll. Right.

And, you know, to have someone say to you, like, you, you threw it away is kind of like, I. What, what did they see? And I still don’t know. And it’s, it’s one of those things where, You know what I mean? And like, I felt all of that at that time and that was like really weighing on me at that time being like, what am I, why? You know, it’s kind of funny to say, I think there’s a part of me that wished that I was kind of like, have you ever seen Blade Runner 2049?

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

matthew willox : seen that movie? Okay, so, so the, the, the, the robot child who is like in the bubble making the dreams and everyone [00:46:00] comes to them and like, Hey, you make the memories, and they’re like completely sealed off from the world. I sort of feel like as an artist, I wish I could have just stayed that and never really, and just people would just come, they would just come in and knock on the glass and be like, I need some completely fucking insane, like wild rave banger, you know?

And you’d be like, cool, I’ll have that to you tomorrow. Come back and get it. Right. Right. And, and, you know, uh, never really had to like, deal with the like

Glen Erickson: like, uh, genie thing where you would

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: in and get the, whatever the,

matthew willox : So far. So far, yeah.

Glen Erickson: like you wanna be like this magical, like electronic so far.

matthew willox : Yeah, basically. And, and you know, you can’t be, you know, ’cause I feel like at the end of the day everybody wants to be that. Everyone wants that. Everyone wants to be the kind of like golden boy and like, you know, his comment that I threw it [00:47:00] away was really funny ’cause like the number of tries it took to get to that show where I was playing with him was like two records worth of work

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : and, and giving it to them and being like, do you like this?

Do you like this? And I remember there was like a burrito shop near my place called Budgies Burritos. And I walked in there one day and they’re all in there eating burritos. Like, like, you know, um, a, a bunch of them and I had just sent over a thing to them and they’re all like, Matthew, oh yeah, this thing you sent us, it’s fucking great.

Like, let’s do it. You know what I mean? And I remember being like, I don’t even need a burrito now. Like, I just like, I have like received this, like, like, you know what I mean? Like, like

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : isn’t, this is like, this is like, I have made something or, or how about this? I have seen something and been like, wow, that’s so inspiring.

Made the thing and been like, I want to get on that stage. I. Given it to them, faced rejection, given it to them, received, [00:48:00] uh, uh, you know, the, the validation from them and then got on the show. And, you know, that, that to me, just at that time in my life was like just a huge victory. And, you know, the, and, and, you know, and, and, and so, you know, of course I just pulled the Brinks truck up and filled it up with bags of money and drove home, right?

Glen Erickson: no. Well, let me say this, Matthew. ’cause I think that’s one of the most relatable things you could say. So it doesn’t

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: genre of music we’re talking about, right? You just described this experience of

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: this thing that inspired me

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: and art is art to me. It doesn’t matter what medium we’re even talking about.

It’s

matthew willox : Now,

Glen Erickson: I have something inside of me and I have to pull it out and make it like tactile or something. Do you know what I mean? That someone

matthew willox : yep.

Glen Erickson: can see it? Is it even real? This is why we joke about what we make on the internet. Is it even real? It’s not real until [00:49:00] somebody else can experience and see it. Hopefully the way I was seeing it, and that’s art, this expression, and you’re just describing this experience of I saw this thing, it inspired me and I went and I needed to make it. And maybe the first iterations weren’t good, but I kept making it until it was good enough that the people who made it and inspired me saw it and felt the same way. It. That’s what we’re all, that’s what we’ve all been doing. Like I’ve worked with, you know, 17-year-old country artists who just want, you know, the, the amount of work they do to just be able to spin that the same way as the one who inspired them to do it. That’s everything.

matthew willox : Yeah. Um, and I have this really distinct memory. It was like Leida played their first sort of show and they had like a bunch of artists who were all playing stuff and there was an artist, um, Kalka, or Kalka, can’t remember exactly how to pronounce it. He was playing a show and I [00:50:00] remember the very, the very beginning.

Of his set was just like cricket sounds and like jungle ambience and you know, kind of like this, like baseline playing underneath it. And like, I just like, I just, you know, like the memory’s just like so vivid of that moment and being like, you can, you can, like, you know, if you were to, if you were to talk to somebody a week previous and being like someone was playing cricket sounds at their show, you would’ve been like, yeah, what?

Do you know what I mean? Like, why would they do, like why would you do that? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Right. And, you know, but then painted this, this sort of like, ambiance and like just built on it and layers and layers and layers of texture and base on top of that. And it just blew my mind, you know, like I really couldn’t even handle it.

Like, I walked outta there and like, I swear to God, I didn’t even sleep that night because I was just [00:51:00] like. Wow. Like there’s just like, you know, I’m way off base, like everything that I’m doing is wrong. Like, why am I doing it this way? You know what I mean? Like, you’re just in a fugue now. Like, you know, your brain’s just like

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : And, um, yeah. Right. And I real like, you know, it’s really, I, I really, I really think that like, as I’ve grown as an, as an artist and grown, you know, into an adult who like, takes more responsibility for the things that I’m doing, I really think that, you know, when you are creating something, like coming up with a theory about what it is or how it’s made and producing it is kind of like, it’s, it’s like you can, I don’t wanna be like, you can manufacture inspiration for other people because I think that that is very tricky and like, probably just impossible.

Like it’s serendipity just doesn’t work that way. But I. If you, if you, if you just come up with the idea and come up with all the like, little pieces for it, you kind of [00:52:00] end up making something that will never fall apart under any circumstance. Like, it’ll always just sort of be rock solid. And I think that this is one of those things where we see modern art, where someone tapes a banana to the wall and, you know, we’re like, it’s art.

And like, I think what actually drives people so crazy about stuff like that is like, you have nothing to go at it with. You know what I mean? Like, that idea is so pure and so completely done that it’s like you’re like, like opening your mouth to try to criticize it is like your downfall, right? Where you’re like, well, it’s just a banana taped to a wall.

And you’re like, yeah. So tell me like why that, why you think that that’s wrong or like,

Glen Erickson: yeah. The conversation becomes, no, it’s not all the other things.

matthew willox : That’s right.

Glen Erickson: a banana and tape and a

matthew willox : That’s right. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: absence and the choice of, I know, whatever we could

matthew willox : Yeah,

Glen Erickson: um,

matthew willox : for sure. Yeah. Anyways, you know, you sort of know what I’m saying there. Like, it, it, you’re, you’re, [00:53:00] yeah. Anyways, it’s, uh, yeah, continue.

Glen Erickson: ask you this, Matthew, ’cause

matthew willox : Sure.

Glen Erickson: like in your timeline, so to speak, uh, for lack of a better term, but this effort of you, of what you’re going through, the iterations, the opportunities, you know, I, I I, I sort of referenced the late nineties and even like getting make electronic tracks for the Oilers scoreboard, right?

That’d

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: some version of a huge win for a kid, young kid in Edmonton, you know, getting out of their basement with their music. And then you, you get to points where, you know, you, you hit some number of whatever on mp3.com or when you first are, are putting music out somewhere and then you’ve, you’ve been signed to a label.

So there’s that, not just that validation. Yeah, there’s a validation, but that sort of respectable. Stance with, with your peers that you know, no one can take away from you. That like the [00:54:00] business recognized you, you’re a part of the fabric of the whole industry. Now, uh, that’s another level. I mean, as, as crazy as things like you said you won an, a national lap, laptop battle championship in Seattle at some point, like a pretty, like, pretty huge deal at the time. So you’ve had these things which like the, the label and things like that, which are very peak moments. then you describe like, like multiple crashes underneath

matthew willox : Yeah,

Glen Erickson: you sort of referenced already sort of slightly, you know, you know what really drives things sometimes is like, I was just feeling lost or I’m a lonely kid and you’re trying to fill a void. And I think

matthew willox : absolutely.

Glen Erickson: you know, sometimes these stories get told in music, sometimes they don’t. Just how. artists have this common thread of, validation and what [00:55:00] we’re trying to fill inside of ourselves with. Like, we’re not just trying to make music that makes people happy, though we all say that in our pressers.

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: trying to find some version of happiness, you know, and you hear the tragic, you, you only hear this talked about in the tragic stories of, how did success not make Cobain happy? How did Michael Hutchins not be happy with all his success in in success or, but it is just, I think it’s real at the most base level.

And describe a couple of burnout phases. It feels like all of these things in this like mass amount of just constantly creating and putting things out wasn’t returning enough to fill that void. Is that an accurate assumption? I’m wondering if you can just tell me about experience as an artist.

Not. Sort of getting what you need back from it to,

matthew willox : Okay,

Glen Erickson: you solid. Yeah.

matthew willox : I’ll give you the, I’ll give you the grownup Matthew version. First, and then we’ll go back and do the like Kid Matthew version. Okay.

Glen Erickson: Okay.

matthew willox : have a really clear idea what you hope to achieve before you start doing [00:56:00] something, which is really funny that I say that. ’cause just earlier I was like, I don’t, usually I make something, I have no idea why.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : Okay. And the only reason why I say that is that if you start making something and it starts doing well, you are going to have to take responsibility for whatever is happening to you as a result of that success or whatever people are buying into, right? So if you’re like, I’m gonna make a sick record that has a bunch of crazy dury death marches on it, and then like, suddenly that’s like used as like some sort of campaign music for like, you know, an invasion.

You’re gonna have to be like, uh, yeah, sorry, that’s not what I, I was just making something cool. Like, I didn’t need it to, you know, to be done for this. I don’t, I don’t want to get paid for something like this, right. You kinda have to take that into account. Now, I know that today because I’m grown up and I’ve seen, I, I have allowed myself to, not, wound, you know, irreparably, but harm people, you know, as a result of my behavior.

Right. And, you [00:57:00] know, like, you know, nothing, ugly, but you know, just being a stupid kid, acting impulsively and being a dumb ass, right? And, you know, it really kind of blows me away how we don’t recognize that like everyone’s going to get to a certain level of maturity in a different way, at a different time.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : so anyways, getting on, getting music to the oiler scoreboard, getting music on a record label, getting into this laptop battle championship stuff, were, were all things that if you had asked me prior, previously, Hey, let’s do this, I probably would’ve been like, eh, I don’t need, I don’t really wanna go do that.

Right. But because the opportunity just kind of showed up on your door and being like, Hey, would you like some free validation for everything that you’ve been working on? You know, even though you have no clue what you’re doing, I’ll just put this record out for you. No big deal. You’re like, yeah, let’s do it.

Right? Sure. And so, you know, the problem with that is though, is that [00:58:00] when you go and you get the result back. You didn’t, you didn’t try to do anything for it, right? It’s almost kind of like, like someone was like, tomorrow there’s gonna be a mystery present on your doorstep. Yes or no? Do you want a mystery present on your, on your doorstep and you open it up and it’s like some sort of like weird candle that smells like O Henry or something, and you’re like, great, okay, cool.

Throw that on the shelf. Right? And it’s not, it’s not like you’re getting this thing back that is fulfilling to you in any way. It’s just happening to you, right? And you’re sort of getting, you’re getting, and so you can look back and it, you’re like, this is an accomplishment. We did this and I did the work to make it happen.

Like I, You know, paid a lawyer to do a record contract. I recorded the album, I produced all the art for it. I, you know, you know what I mean? I talked to the record about it, put this thing together, and then it goes out there and you see the reaction of the people [00:59:00] who are, you know, what they’re saying about it or how it makes them feel.

And you’re like, Hmm, I don’t like

Glen Erickson: yeah.

matthew willox : you don’t get it. Right. And, and

Glen Erickson: The thing,

matthew willox : a,

Glen Erickson: thing that’s coming back, you’re saying

matthew willox : yeah,

Glen Erickson: isn’t necessarily what you needed. I.

matthew willox : that’s right. Yeah,

Glen Erickson: and maybe the real friction is that you have some sense of guilt over that or confusion because you

matthew willox : definitely.

Glen Erickson: something else. And

matthew willox : Absolutely.

Glen Erickson: also, if you express that, thinks you’re being ungrateful maybe.

matthew willox : So, yeah, so I, so, you know, I think if you went in, if you, if you went and talked to Micah do, and you said to him like, what was Matthew like when you were working on this stuff with him? He’d probably be like, like kind of disaffected, you know, or like, maybe overly challenging because like, you know, I was like, well, like, what are we gonna, like who, like, who, who are we playing shows with?

Like, if I’m gonna put this album out, let’s play some shows, like, let’s do some stuff. And it was sort of like, no, no, no, that’s not really what we got going on here. Like, oh, whoa, whoa, slow down. Like, you’re thinking like, you know, [01:00:00] you’re, you’re on this level, but you’re actually on this level. And I was like.

I don’t care what level it is, let’s just do the thing, right. And ’cause I’m like doing this thing or, or let’s say going, going to California and playing a show with a bunch of people who I’m making music with would be really validating, like 10 times more validating than putting any kind of record out.

Even if it’s like you come back in a negative in the bank account because you had to go do that, the fulfillment of that is more. Right. And so, you know, I’m playing shows in Vancouver or I’m going to, I’m going to a lot of shows and I have a good friend group and this laptop battle stuff comes up and my friend Jen is like, Hey, you should do this laptop battle thing.

And I’m like, really? she’s like, yeah, yeah, you gotta do it. And, and like all of my friends, all of my friends are like, you will just annihilate this. Like, you’re just, there’s just no contest. Trust me, you’ll get into this and you’ll just blow them away. And I remember being like, okay, like, sure, let’s, let’s do it.

[01:01:00] And uh, like I don’t wanna be like, this was a mistake, right? But, you know, I go and I play that thing and that is exactly what happens. Okay? And so there’s all these people who I know, or who I’m meeting who now see me as this guy who like just dismantles people in these battles. And man, that is not me at all.

I am not that person. I’m like, you know, I’m the kind of person that’s like, oh, you wanna learn how to make electronic music cool? Come over to like, you know, when do you want to come over? I’ll show you how to do everything. It’ll take. 48 hours. You know, I got a bed in the studio, you can sleep here. Right?

And, and like, that. I’m more interested in doing that. And then so you win that, and then you meet the people who are doing the laptop battle stuff, and they’re like, you, you know, like you gotta come to the next one. Like, you gotta go, you know, like, we can bring in Seattle, let’s do this kind of thing.

And so you go all right. Like I got this opportunity. Here we go. Like, let’s just see where it goes kind of thing. Again, this is a [01:02:00] theme for me. It’s like I’m not really thinking about what’s gonna happen the next step down the road, or like what, in that situation, in that laptop battle situation, I’m basically walking into a dragon’s den.

But that Dragon’s den to me is like sort of like, you know, I. Look, it’s the tunnel of love, right? It’s like, like the, the dragon has gone and like, you know, painted a tunnel of love, like over his mouth. So you just walk in,

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

matthew willox : And, and so, right? And so,

Glen Erickson: a good picture.

matthew willox : right?

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

matthew willox : And so you’re like, you’re like laptop battle, right?

And so I go and do that and like, I have this weird memory of like being at that, at the National Laptop Battle. And I thought I lost, like, I thought the, like I was standing in the crowd and the guy who I was battling against was playing. And I was like, no way. Did anything that I make, match what this guy’s doing right now.

Like [01:03:00] he has, he has in the course of this battle, figured out the game and responded to me here. He’s like thrown the, he’s like, he’s, you know, he’s been released. He’s like, the right. And then, so I’m like, oh, I’ve lost. And everyone’s like, no, no, no. You’ve won. Like, get up there. You know, like, do you think that thing,

Glen Erickson: rap battle in the last mile.

matthew willox : it’s like Eminem, it’s Oh yeah, it’s it, um, uh, exactly.

It’s exactly like that. And so you’re like, okay, cool. And, and like I have this other memory of being backstage at, at the laptop battle and the promoter of the show has this like big stack of bills, like just money from that show. And he’s holding it and he is looking at me. And I remember being like, alright, that’s my ticket home.

Like I’ve spent my last money just to get here and I needed to win this to be able to like, make it so that I’m not walking home from Seattle, basically.

But you know, that weekend or like right after that [01:04:00] show, I went and played this like little space right after that show. I went and played on a military base and all of these things, like every single moment of this thing, my anxiety is like going up by like a factor of 10 because I’m not around my friends anymore.

I’m around people who I don’t know. I’m in situations that are like, like I am helping create an aggressive environment through just the music that I’m making. And no one’s getting hurt, but it’s very rowdy. And I’m all alone essentially, and I feel alone. And so and so each one of these things, it’s like if you were, if you were to go and be like the, I, I went to Seattle and I played three fucking crazy shows in one weekend, and it just blew everyone’s mind.

Everyone would be like, wow, that’s really great. and, and, you know, as an accomplishment, it was, but as an experience to me was like

Glen Erickson: Hmm.

matthew willox : frightening the entire time, like terrifying the entire time. And when I finally got on the bus to come home, I was listening [01:05:00] to, a song, uh, it’s by massive attack called Small Time Shot Away.

And it’s just like very low and very droning. And I just remember feeling like I need to do something other than this. Like this was a. Terrible idea for me to do

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : happy that everything turned out the way that it did and was exciting and all that kind of stuff. And like it really kind of got to this thing where it’s like, I have no idea what I’m doing.

I’m just sort of saying yes to stuff I, and like, like I don’t mean like know what I’m doing, like the tangible sort of day-to-day operations of like how to get, you know, X.

Glen Erickson: The,

matthew willox : That’s right.

Glen Erickson: plan

matthew willox : Why am I here?

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : Right?

Glen Erickson: you know, this, that feels like, that feels like the mainstream version of that story. There’s a number of them, but it, I don’t

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: me think of like when Radiohead lands in America after creep and realizes that America is lumping them in to be the next big grunge band

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: of the song [01:06:00] creep.

And they’re like, no, this isn’t us at all. They got it all wrong and, and everything the business had laid out for them didn’t

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: And, and, and, you know, and like they had a pretty visceral reaction, to how that was all happening. And also makes me just think of the 10 or maybe a hundred x version of that on people who land on massive stages, like Kurt Cobain’s story that the misunderstanding of artists, I think by the public is what you just described, is. When it’s not aligned, success doesn’t matter because what it does to you is drills giant holes in that misalignment, as you, as a person. Right.

matthew willox : Will you, will you have someone?

Glen Erickson: more.

matthew willox : Like you, like I had someone, like I, I got this little reputation from that kind of small laptop battle group right after this where they’re like,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : spark that guy. He’s just in it for the money. I. Like he doesn’t care. And I’m like, that is so [01:07:00] not true. And I was like, the money what?

And like, you’re like, your sort of mean reaction is like, what money? You know? Like, I got a bus ticket home. Woo. Yeah. Like, just watch it, you know, let’s go spend this money in the strip club.

Glen Erickson: ’cause I

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: the money so I could get a bus ticket home.

matthew willox : Basically, right? Yeah. I asked for the winnings that you, you were putting here in front of me so that I could get home.

Thank you for that. and so, you know, the, the being clear about what you’re trying to do and why you wanna do it and what you love about it. Now,

like on that bus ride home, like I was just crying and I remember getting home and lying down and just crying and just being like, that was just awful. and, and it wasn’t like, it wasn’t like I got there and everyone that I met was like super inspiring.

And there’s people who I met, like, uh, like my friend, uh, Christine, Kenco, Kenco, in quotes, Evans, Wonderful person. And every time that I got to hang out with her, she would just say. To just like zing off a Buddha, [01:08:00] like one liner to me, that has stuck with me to this day.

in all of our friendships together, like all the times we hung out, there’s probably, like we said, 2000 words to each other, but some of those words, like, I’m playing a show and everyone’s angry, like everyone’s angry at the show. I was playing one time and we, it was called Smile TROs.

So it was really ironic and everyone’s fighting with me and, and she just, she just comes up to me and she’s like, you can’t be a rainbow shitting unicorn every day. And I remember just being like, yeah. And I say that like, I give that advice to other people all the time. Like when they’re like, you know, like, I just can’t come into work that, ’cause I just can’t do the, the socialization thing.

And I’m like, Hey man, you can’t be a rainbow shitting unicorn every day. Like, you just,

Glen Erickson: yeah. And, uh, the other one too, and this, this one really speaks to me is like, don’t confuse commodification with mastery, which is like, just because you are on a stage, just because people are cheering you on or buying your record, doesn’t mean that you don’t have more growth in, like, there’s more to do.

matthew willox : And it’s like, I [01:09:00] wish I could go back in time.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : And say to and say to someone like Kurt Cobain, like, put the shotgun down. Let’s make a beat on this drum machine,

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

matthew willox : we’re gonna,

Glen Erickson: yeah,

matthew willox : you know what I mean? And we’re gonna reinvent you as Beck. Right. You know what I mean? Like,

Glen Erickson: yeah.

matthew willox : gonna be like, what?

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of intense, man. Like, like, I mean, we’ve referenced Kurt a couple times and I, with no pre-thought, but, and it’s very

matthew willox : Well, I’m from the nineties, so Yeah.

Glen Erickson: it’s very true, but I mean, it is just the most exaggerated story of, I think this thing about an artist who’s just trying to make the thing they love and experiences misalignment, and then you throw that into the soup of whatever you’re coming outta your childhood with whatever way you’ve learned to cope or deal, right.

With validation or the absence of it, or, uh, there’s all kinds of things in the soup. So [01:10:00] the, you know, it just gets pretty intense and I guess it’s just really understood and misunderstood, I mean, in artists. So I think the way you’ve articulated that, it’s really incredible based on your experience.

matthew willox :

Glen Erickson: for sake of time, ’cause I think I could talk to you for like three hours and not even notice it here.

matthew willox : No worries.

Glen Erickson: couple things I wanna ask you about, really quick, more rapid fire then. So

like, so I love that you referenced Tron. Uh, I

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: early exposure into, oh, the person in the is in the computer and I was fascinated with computers as a kid.

So the tron and just the visuals of it were incredible. The video games were incredible. I used to go to the arcades in West Edmonton Mall and play Tron till I had no money left.

matthew willox : This beautiful.

Glen Erickson: my,

matthew willox : It’s beautiful.

Glen Erickson: you can sort of do a big jump arc line to

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: next one that is in my, uh, canon of favorite movies of all time, which is Scott Pilgrim versus the World, which felt a similar but different, and I wanna

matthew willox : Yep.[01:11:00]

Glen Erickson: it’s not electronic, but if you feel like that, would you see it the same way or are you super familiar with the movie Scott Pilgrim? Versus

matthew willox : I am. That’s like, that’s, um,

Glen Erickson: video game integration

matthew willox : Oh, I have the video game. Like, so it started off as a, as a manga or a, or I guess just a regular, it might, it might be in manga format. Um, and then turned into a movie, and then it’s also a game. And so, yeah, I mean, you know, the, the whole, the whole like Ramona flowers, like kind of like, you know, purple or red-haired video game.

Glen Erickson: yep,

matthew willox : Girl, right. That, you know, that, that we’re sort of like all in love with, uh, the cool, the cool girl. totally, totally get that. And that’s actually kind of like the most successful album that ever made was this album called Robotic Girl Next Door. And it is like kind of about me meeting my Ramona Flowers, like, essentially, right.

And,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : and you [01:12:00] know, like, like that sort of romance is, um, just coded into that album. Like everything that we are kind of going through. Like there this song on that album called, uh, we almost didn’t Make It, and I wrote that song after we were like eating it. Like, um, oh, what’s that? What’s that? The, it’s like a vegetarian cafe on white, I can’t remember what it’s called.

Glen Erickson: Mosaics, cafe

matthew willox : Ca we’re, we’re reading at Cafe Mosaics or some version of Cafe Mosaics, like in whatever it was, in 2001. And we start walking home and it, like, we go there and it’s like plus 10, but when we start, when we leave, it’s like minus 10. And so we’re walking from White Ave across the high level bridge back to my place on like one 13th in Jasper.

And we’re like freezing. And we’re like both like, we’re gonna die. We’re gonna die. You know? And we’re too young and broke to like get money for a tax cab.

Glen Erickson: You

matthew willox : Right. So

Glen Erickson: Sarah in this

matthew willox : I’m Michael Sarah in this

Glen Erickson: episode? [01:13:00] Yeah.

matthew willox : Yeah. Um, like that song is just that like, you know, when you’re, when you’re trying to hang on is actually very, static.

You know what I mean? Like, you’re like, there isn’t like a lot of movement in a song like that. And so I just had this kind of like one kind of like pulsating idea and people like ended up really liking that song. Like, oh, this is like my favorite song on the record. It’s just, you can really feel this kind of vibe in there.

And I was like, that is like a true moment that happened to me. And I

And so, you know, that’s, that’s like, again, when I have the vision and I know what I’m doing and I make the thing, it always turns out great. Or like, not always, but like, you know, like, I’ll make it great, you know, whatever I can do that. The idea is always there and the execution kind of comes through anyways.

Yeah. So that’s, that’s how I feel about,

Glen Erickson: that.

matthew willox : yeah, like definitely video games. Yeah. Okay. Continue next one.

Glen Erickson: keep going off that. ‘ cause there’s another thing I wanted to quickly ask you about before we wrap

matthew willox : Sure.

Glen Erickson: think the, one of the most coolest things I saw from you is the controller of an old [01:14:00] SNES thing into basically a musical instrument and how you’ve sort of merged this.

I’m making music outta my video game old, you know,

So can you just give a quick, like how did that, like how did that happen for you? How did you figure that out? Where was the inspiration?

matthew willox : yeah, so I think at, like, at the, at the fundamental level, there’s very little difference between like a, a MIDI keyboard that you would plug into the computer and a Nintendo controller, right? Like you’re pushing a button down, it’s telling a little controller to generate a signal and sends it to the computer.

So, you know, at some point you’re like. Hey, uh, I’m gonna go spend whatever, $500 on a MIDI controller, or I can try to get my Super Nintendo controller to work. And so there’s a lot of things that I, and like I, I used to have a. Uh, a Palm pilot. You remember Palm Pilot,

Glen Erickson: Yep,

matthew willox : had converted my palm pilot into a MIDI sequencer, [01:15:00] and so I could actually, like all my sequences for a gig were like on the Palm Pilot and I could just pull it up and play it.

Glen Erickson: That’s amazing.

matthew willox : And so, yeah, like, and you know, to, to me is like, you know, I have the POM pilot. I can solder and I can kind of figure out like, you know what, I can get out of this thing. And there’s other people working on that stuff too, right? There’s a, a, a, a community and ecosystem. I’m not like inventing all this stuff from scratch.

And so you can take that stuff and use it and then, you know, uh, there’s like a, there’s a great video on YouTube where a guy takes a bicycle and he makes it so that when you turn it one way or another, it turned the opposite way. So like, if you turn left, the tire goes right, and if you turn right, the tire goes left.

Okay. And so then he tries to ride it. Okay. So I sort of think that like, you know, if I pick up a guitar, I can, I can get something nice out of it. If I pick up a clarinet, I can get something nice out of it. If I play on the piano, I can, I can, you know, uh, like I know the piano the best. So I, [01:16:00] you know, no problem there.

So if I pick up the Super Nintendo controller, aren’t I just kind of trying to get that bicycle wheel to turn in the right direction? And it’s just a matter of kind of like.

Glen Erickson: Mm,

matthew willox : Get in the brain to figure out the inputs and outputs and, it’s really no more complicated than that. And it looks cool, and people get all excited about it.

And you’re like, this is like wearing a leather set jacket to the nerds. You know, like, they’re just like, wow, I can’t believe it. You know? And you’ve got it, you know, and you’ve, you’re

Glen Erickson: jacket to the Nerd Convention. Yeah.

matthew willox : And it’s like you’re on stage and you’ve got like a, you’ve got, you don’t got a tie on.

You’ve got like a Super Nintendo controller that you pull outta your pocket and you start hitting it. And people are just like, what? That’s crazy.

Glen Erickson: what I find fascinating is when you reference this and how you’ve used your brain to figure this out and almost made that your. brand almost of, of how you approach music is goes all the way back to the start of our conversation of, you know, we make stuff digitally and then we go and add all this analog stuff on top so it [01:17:00] feels real or something.

Or

matthew willox : Yep.

Glen Erickson: the brilliance of, you know, distortion is that it’s actually the sound of an amp that can’t contain the sound. And it’s, and there’s something so human and real about that, you know,

matthew willox : The.

Glen Erickson: hitting the limits and, and the same way that you’re sort of manipulating. This is what I’m fascinated. I wanted you to explain how you do that, because what’s fascinating to me is I think, and I think I’m pretty smart in this stuff, and I, I don’t get where your brain goes, I don’t do the math ahead of time to think of is just this and I can find the, the sequence that connects the two, right, that I can push music. a thing that none of us thought was meant for music. I just think that’s really brilliant. Fascinating version of creativity.

matthew willox : And, you know, well, thanks for thinking That’s brilliant. I, you know, I really work hard on music theory. It’s something that I don’t necessarily try to push on other people, but I think that understanding music [01:18:00] theory is probably one of the most important things you can do as a musician

so I do a lot of thinking about the music theory part of it.

I don’t know. I don’t know if, I don’t know if I can know how to answer this question. My brain just works that way. Like I look at the numbers, I look at the relationships between notes. I have had big conversations with people where, where you’re like, don’t worry about scale, don’t worry about cords, don’t like, all those things are kind of like, macro structures.

You know, if you look at a skyscraper, you’re like, it’s a rectangle. You’re like, yeah, it’s a, it looks like a rectangle, but it’s made up of all these other little things. And so music to me, like the foundation of music, and it’s the thing that I wish in music school and in music books, they would just spend 99.9% of the book on, ’cause it would make everything else irrelevant is intervals between notes.

All music comes down to intervals, between notes and, If you like, I used to have a friend, he would be like, how do you make the melodies that you make? Like, tell, like, teach me what you’re doing. [01:19:00] And I’m like, okay, pick seven notes on the keyboard. So go from like pick a, pick a root note and then any seven notes in between there in between those two things.

And he is like, well that’s weird. Like this sounds weird or that sounds weird. I’m like, yeah, but that’s a scale. Any seven notes between here and there is a scale and you can actually do eight notes. There’s actually composers out there who are like, no, no, no, you can make your notes up of eight scales.

And they actually have a lot of advantages in, in doing it that way.

And I remember showing my dad one day, he’s like, oh, show me how you write a song. And I literally took the sequencer and I just put a bunch of random notes in it and I hit play. And he is like, well, that sounds terrible. And I was like, well, let’s take a couple notes out. And so I just plucked a couple of notes off the, off the grid and played it again.

And it started to have like a little groove in it, like, you know, ’cause you’re, creating rests, you’re creating blank spaces. And he’s like, oh, that’s sounding better. And then I was like, well, this note needs to go up and this note needs to go down. And then, you know, we just kind of like took that jumble of sticks that I threw in there and kind of mushed them around until we finally had [01:20:00] like a melody and a sequence.

and.

the biggest writer’s block I ever had was probably between 2014 and, last year or the year before to 2022. And I just wasn’t writing any music. And it was because I was trying to like, be like, well, no, like, what is the real way to write music? You know? And you’re just like, don’t worry about it.

It’s like, who cares if you like it? It’s good. You like it, it’s good. That’s it. You don’t need to be like, yeah, but is someone else gonna really like, see that I’ve been really original here. Like, that when once that gets into my head, I’m dead. Like I will just cease to exist.

Glen Erickson: I mean, follow your heart between the intervals sounds like a pretty good theme to this entire arc of your story, tell you the

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Um,

matthew willox : so, it’s so funny that you say that now because like my whole approach, which is like, I don’t know what the next step is. And so I’m also saying my root theory is like, just use intervals. Just just worry about the next step between the note.

Glen Erickson: This has been a, this has been a total [01:21:00] blast. I love talking to you about all this kind of stuff and I know I could talk to you a whole bunch more and I’m sure we will. But,

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: uh, I’m gonna go back and listen and try to pull a couple of those quotes from your friend out from Sure. But now I’m going to

matthew willox : Okay.

Glen Erickson: thinking about this whole idea of following your heart between the intervals. So thanks for all of

matthew willox : Absolutely.

Glen Erickson: me today and for taking the time. really

matthew willox : For sure. Well, you know, I’m a huge fan of what you’ve done so far. Like I just, I love listening to this show, so to when you’re like, you can be on my show, and I’d only like really listened to one episode. At that point I was like, yeah,

Glen Erickson: Well,

matthew willox : me do it.

Glen Erickson: kind of you. Uh,

matthew willox : Yeah.

Glen Erickson: appreciate it. I, I didn’t want it to feel like a backhanded compliment to say you didn’t have some of fame that maybe my normal audience would quote unquote know who you were. But this is it was so important to me was ’cause I think that your story is just an every day, every person story.

[01:22:00] And I love it. It’s fascinating to me and know, I appreciate you just taking the time to sort of pull the veil back on it for me.

matthew willox : I can I end on one story? We’ll just, we’ll just, we’ll just leap out right after this. I’ll tell one story. So. So after, after, you know, uh, my music career, sort of as it was, as we were talking about, had been completely and utterly destroyed by like, multiple factors, you know? And I, I moved back to Edmonton and I’m staying with, a friend of the robotic girl next door, And, I’m in his like, sort of listing room and, you know, like my whole world’s like gone. Like I’ve lost everything, like literally everything. And I look up at his CD show and I see a copy of my album in there, and I pull it out and I was like, you have this. He’s like, that’s you,

right?

Glen Erickson: so

matthew willox : It’s just,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

matthew willox : yeah, right? And you’re like,

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

matthew willox : yep. So I feel like, I feel like I’ve had my own j I’ve [01:23:00] had my own almost famous enough, like I’ve been almost famous enough. It’s true.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I, yeah, I’m glad you said that. I appreciate that very much, Matthew. I wish you obviously all the success in whatever you’re doing, and I hope that, uh, I get to be inside this circle and continue to see your creative efforts, Thank you, man.

matthew willox : No problem.

Bye.

Glen Erickson: take care, bud.

alexi: Hey, just wait. Lemme close my door.

Glen Erickson: You ready to go? You wanna chat? Are we gonna

alexi: we gonna chat?

Glen Erickson: Okay, we’re gonna chat. Okay, so episode 11, Matthew Willox okay, maybe it’s completely obvious, right? Like I came right out of the gates starting a podcast, and of course I’m just gonna lean on my friends and people I know. The people that I know will respond to emails right away, tended to be the people who got in on the guest list right away. Um, that’s not totally true, but no, well, no, we work together, right? So Matthew and I worked together. Well, here’s the very [01:24:00] interesting thing and and this is part of what I wrote for the intro to this, so I kind of dropped this hint in the intro to the episode, so it kind of already happened, but I asked him to be a guest before I had even dug into his music career.

alexi: So you took a

Glen Erickson: If you can

alexi: It could have been boring.

Glen Erickson: I took, I took a real swing off of this, but, but it’s because what I sort of mentioned at the start of the, the conversation with Matthew, which was the level to which he is a creative, is so unmatched with most people I met. And I’ve, you know, I can always tell through all of our conversations that everything is so informed by a deep, rich experience, and I just knew that. I needed, I, and I needed and wanted something different, right? I don’t want the same version of a story the music and career and the way that his, we didn’t really even dip into the way it overlaps just into his career and life as an incredible [01:25:00] digital artist and, and programmer and coder and all the things that he can do, but they are blended for him, and it was incredible.

And then when I dug into his life. I couldn’t find very much. I mean, the inside little note to that is, he’s very fun at work because he’s been a great supporter too. So I asked him this very early on, and then he started listening to episodes, and then I would get Slack messages from Matthew every Thursday when a new episode would come out, and he would tell me which part of the story he’s relating to every time.

So he’s. Yeah. Sweet is a great word for it. He’s just a sweet guy.

alexi: I actually take it back. I don’t think he is a gamble because if you like previously knew him pre like podcast talk, listening to him, I feel like he could be sane, boring. Like he could have boring content, he could be like a, have a boring story, but the way he speaks and the way he engages in his little chuckle, like he could, it would be still interesting and engaging to listen to.

So I mean, if you knew him and heard that already. [01:26:00] It is not really a gamble, like, you know, like for a podcast where people are just listening to him talk, it’s gonna be engaging. just makes it even better.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, agree. but I, I told you that I hoped you would really like his little chuckle, so I’m glad that

alexi: it was so

Glen Erickson: yeah.

alexi: I feel the same whenever I’m talking to people. If I ever say anything and I’m either like really comfortable and like finding myself funny or opposite end, and I’m like quite uncomfortable, I feel like I often the same thing. So that was very relatable.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And, and the other sweet thing about him is that he can talk with great earn earnestness and intensity, yet it doesn’t matter what. The subject matter is he, he can roll it off in that self-deprecating, don’t take himself too seriously. Ever little chuckle, uh, at whatever part of the story.

So, yeah, I really loved that about him and I’m so happy to be able to share that with everybody else. so it was a different kind of story, but I loved that had this [01:27:00] version and it, and it’s, sorry, I should say, and it’s a story that, like I said, isn’t. The path that a lot of my peers or that I was involved in.

So it’s great. And yet there’s like all kinds of similarities had such, you know, the aspirations and the opportunity, sort of the endless opportunity in front of him

alexi: a really podcast.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And then a big crash too in his life.

but you know, he just said so many on point things, so my favorite thing at the very end, I’m gonna, I don’t know if you have a favorite part or thing that was said or any little segment I’ll let you say, but my favorite was just right at the end when he was just talking about music theory, just randomly off to the side and he talked about the, between the intervals. he really thinks music

alexi: what I.

Glen Erickson: ’cause scale. ‘ cause scales are scales. Like they’re just, they’re there. Right. Like they don’t change, but it’s all the stuff in between. And the way, it just was such a clear in metaphor for everything. He had [01:28:00] talked about it in his life

alexi: Well, I was gonna say and him pointing that out and then like you could tell he brought it up as like a quick side note to add to his point, and then he kind of fell into rabbit hole, but like. of like passion that he brought and it just like all of a sudden talking about like intervals and like the story with his dad and like his creation process, like just that quick bit.

I was like, if you just took that and had someone listen, like you can tell from that how creative of a mind he has. And like right off the bat you him in the episode as like just such a creative person and that drawing of him looking out into the distance he was talking about with like music notes around his head.

And I’m like.

Glen Erickson: It makes sense.

alexi: that that person did that. But like, I guess, and I’m like, dude, if I listen segment of him talking about like that with his dad and just making like music that way and like creating that way, like no crap. That’s what someone sees him as.

Like that’s exactly an accurate portrayal. And I was like,

Glen Erickson: Yep. Absolutely. Okay. So I, I really hope people [01:29:00] really take the time with this one. I think when you follow the way he weaves and weaves and weaves around his points with, with the context and the story like you had pointed out, it’s like really sweet stuff in there. what I wanted to make clear, cause at one point early on, and I think I told you I might have even edited some of it ’cause I rambled while he was talking near the beginning trying to find a quote and it’s one of my

alexi: Instagram?

Glen Erickson: Favorite quotes absolutely ever. Way back in my Instagram. and then I finally pulled one part of it a little bit out near the end ’cause it came back around a reference.

And I like callbacks a lot. So, but if it’s okay, I thought I would just read the whole quote and then you can just tell me what you

alexi: gonna ask

Glen Erickson: Um.

alexi: you left us all on a

Glen Erickson: Okay.

alexi: so.

Glen Erickson: Okay, just do that. So it’s from a guy named Brian Eno. He’s an amazing producer. Uh, a vast array of credits, but most people know him because he was a part of the production team that really took, that was a part of U2 when U2 really became the [01:30:00] biggest band in the world the eighties and the nineties.

So, so Brian Eno has been known as very revolutionary also in the electronic world, which is why I thought it was apropos to to Matthew. but that’s not even why I thought of it. I thought of it because of the quote.

So he says this, whatever you now find weird, uncomfortable, and nasty about a new medium. surely become its signature CD distortion, of digital video, the crap sound of an eight bit. All of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure, the sound of things going out of control of a medium, pushing to its limits, and breaking apart guitar sound.

Is the sound of something too loud for the medium that’s supposed to carry it? The blue singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry, too powerful for the throat that releases it. which I just find the most articulate [01:31:00] of putting together this idea that. We have this perfectionism as humans, and I see it especially in like electronic music because he was talking about how that one guy how do you get your sound so perfectly clear back in the nineties? And he’s like, because it’s all digital. Like I don’t have to deal with the natural stuff that’s here.

I, it’s just digital. But, and that’s where that conversation started from.

alexi: like his example of um, like him using digital and people being so impressed that it sounds clear, and then him going. And adding like background noise to make it sound real and authentic. It’s like

Glen Erickson: yeah.

alexi: like, what you just said. It’s like he has this amazing quality now, which was new at the time and it’s like impressive.

But you know, he still just like wants that authenticness authentic[01:32:00]

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

alexi: And I just found that so interesting someone had this like pure sound and was like, oh, this is great. This is lovely. I’m gonna stick to this. but it’s like craving for like authenticness.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And I think the other part of that that I loved about him and how he does things and what his story is and how it relates to what I find really, desirable and attractive in the music world is his, is it, it’s this idea that we tend to thrive when we have less means, when we have around us, like we tend to put out better art and work when we’re in the absence of plenty.

I, I was actually just talking about this last week with somebody about music scenes in different cities and I said there’s this really common characteristic, especially here in Canada of, scenes that have developed in places where think they wouldn’t because, All the local music venues [01:33:00] shut and now people don’t have anywhere in it maybe to play and they don’t have opportunity or they’re very isolated in a region. Right. It’s takes like, you have to drive a long way to go play anywhere but your own town. So, those limitations create a greater hunger and drive.

Yeah. And so art gets produced and you know, and then all of a sudden. see it. What we were talking about last week with someone was, I watched this thing happen in Vancouver, you know, 15 years ago or so where a lot of the famous music venues shut. They all became dance bars. And the first time in a long time, that’s when Vancouver all of a sudden that’s what Dan Mangan came out of the scene.

That flourished out of came right after that. Right. And because art artists will go and find a way. To make it happen. And, And Matthew was a great example that he, he can make, you know, if you left him with no musical instruments, he would do like what he did, which is [01:34:00] take a Super Nintendo controller, figure out it’s transmitting, its eight bits. And turn it into something that could create sounds. yeah, it’s, he’s the mad scientist. He’s the genius wizard, all of those things. So anyhow, that was pretty

alexi: very.

Glen Erickson: Okay. Well, thank you for your time and I hope that. Your work goes well tonight. If you have, I don’t know. You probably don’t have work left to do.

Are you done your work for the night? Did I get you at the end of

alexi: of my night? Yep, it’s eight 30. It’s

Glen Erickson: Okay. You’re such an old lady. Okay. I’m just kidding. Okay, Thank

alexi: Excited for next week.

Glen Erickson: Excited for next week too.

alexi: Bye.