The Royal Foundry are ok

ep4 The Royal Foundry are ok

[00:00:00] There’s one thing you need to know about this episode with the Royal Foundry. No, there are actually two things. First. You need to know that Beth, one half of the band, was not part of the conversation, unfortunately. Actually, three things. Okay, first, the Royal Foundry is essentially a husband and wife band, partner’s band, like other current Canadian modern rock staples, Dear Rouge or July Talk, which is also a lot of Alberta representation and a rabbit hole for another day.

Second, in Beth’s absence, the conversation is with Jared Salte. And the third thing you should know is that if you picture a permanent, warm, hospitable smile on Jared’s face throughout the episode, you will have pretty much nailed it. Okay, four things. You should know what this band has accomplished. The Royal Foundry was formed in 2013 [00:01:00] as a folk rock duo and made an immediate impact with the release of All We Have.

After changing gears into the modern alt rock space in 2015, they haven’t looked back with four studio albums, over half a dozen charting singles on alternative rock radio in Canada, including current top 20 hit, Famous. Their songs have appeared on Disney, MTV, and the NHL. These would all be great reasons for Jared to be smiling, except The couple was still in the throes of an 18 month displacement from their home after a fire in their studio space, during which they experienced the birth of their first child and the recording of their latest album, Be Kind.

But their smile was still there, and I didn’t doubt its authenticity once. The episode was recorded from the basement of Jared’s parents house. There are audio [00:02:00] challenges, moving furniture above. But we were still able to get through it and get to the heart of things. And okay, a fifth thing you should know, this band is resilient.

They are still okay. My name is Glenn Erickson. This is Almost Famous Enough. Thank you for spending your time with us. This is the Royal Foundry.

Glen Erickson: So um, yeah, so I can’t, I, I’m not even sure the last time we crossed paths, I don’t know if it was, I was talking to my daughter. She remembers us seeing you at Taste of Edmonton like, and I know

Jared Salte: may have[00:03:00]

Glen Erickson: we went to one of those and I know we talked to you briefly.

I decide, I can’t remember another time since then, but what I was recalling is like our intersection started like 10 years ago. Like I can’t even believe it’s, it’s 10 years, right? Since the peak performance project, when I got introduced to you guys as

Glen Erickson: a, on that jury of deciding who got in and, um, which we’ll talk about a bit, but so it’s 10 years, it’s a little more than 10 years since you guys formed, which means it’s only a little more than.

10 years since you even have been married, um, as you got married right off the bat. Is it, is it a time when you’re doing reflection like that? Are you thinking, back on, like it’s been 10 years, getting sort of into those, I don’t want to use the word nostalgic necessarily, but is there any sort of reflection going on about the last 10 years?

Jared Salte: for sure. I mean, it’s a decade. Like, when you put it like that, it starts to Like, it [00:04:00] creeped up on us totally. Like, we felt like a fresh band for 10 years. And then you look back and you go, Oh, it’s 10 years. Like, we’re not fresh. We’ve been doing this a while, and we’ve released a few albums. But the nostalgia part is funny, because I feel like Every album or single that we look back on, almost every one, I go, ah, I wouldn’t have done that.

Or, ah, I wish I could fix that up. Um, so you know, there’s nostalgia, but always happy to just be moving forward or doing something new.

Glen Erickson: I think that’s a really good point is artists probably get asked that question a lot. And I think a lot of artists other than having to, other than the live performances, you know, we’ve moved on so significantly from songs and music and whatever was probably inspiring or pushing us forward at that time to where we are right now.

I mean, until you get to be like. I don’t know, like Springsteen just came [00:05:00] through and played three hours of songs or plus at his age, but, you and I, like first intersect like 10 years ago, I know, I still remember really well because I was very obviously I was very tapped into the provincial music scene in particular, which was part of where this development program came out of.

I’ve been sitting on hundreds of juries or awards, so I see people all the time and it was rare that I got an application that I didn’t know or didn’t recognize or didn’t see the name before. But I grew, I grew a pretty quick affinity because I felt there were a lot of. similarities in your background and, and, uh, just aspects of your life plus career, uh, that I could really relate to.

So, I remember feeling excited about it. I obviously didn’t control alone who got in or not to the program, but, I thought, uh, what I would find really interesting is to sort of like dip back if it’s okay and we can sort of [00:06:00] talk our way through the timeline. I think, you’ve got like five studio albums basically underneath you, right?

Um, I know only four showed up on Spotify because the, the, uh, the first one isn’t

Jared Salte: Got buried.

Glen Erickson: got buried, but, um, But interestingly, have you noticed that the video doesn’t get buried? It lives forever on the internet. It’s like such a distinctly different version of you guys. But we can talk about that a little bit.

But, yeah, so like five studio albums, by all outside appearances, even if I’m to step back from how well I know both you and Beth and the band, You know, Outside Appearances, Ten Year Trajectory, like five studio albums, like an awful lot of, like all of them have charting songs on the Canadian alt rock.

Uh, I hear you an awful lot in Edmonton on Sonic, which is kind of a flagship still alt rock station for Canada, which is pretty [00:07:00] significant. Multiple awards, cash prize things, the songwriting awards, You have a team around you of people that are pretty well known in the country for the work they do.

so all accounts on the surface, right? That’s pretty much a career artist thing. So, I guess my first step past sort of the veneer of the things you list in a bio is the Royal Foundry. Like how DIY your career. has been and still seems to be in a lot of ways. And I think that’s of real particular interest. I think for people just knowing how you came to be and how you’re still making things and the choices you’re still making and right down to either musicians too and stuff, right? Like I think your approach has been interesting. it’s obvious to me visibly. I’d like to dig into sort of how that came in, where it came from.

If that’s all

Jared Salte: yeah, I mean, the DIY thing was always money related [00:08:00] and just our expertise. Like, like I, I used to produce people. I, I would produce my friend’s bands in junior high, you know, little studio set up. And, and so it was just natural that we would ourselves. Um, and we’ve kept it that way up until this last album really is the first time that we ever handed the reins to someone else.

Um, uh, with, uh, Ryan Worsley at Echo Plant. Um, and we’re very happy with that, but up until then, it was, it was always the way we’ve done it. And I, I think, It’s funny because we are coming on 10 years, but I think, well, we are on 10 years, but I think DIY is more how everyone’s doing it now. Like even the idea of a big budget music video is kind of out the window.

It’s better just, just to do like 20 tick tock videos and put [00:09:00] your money there, then, you know, get your, you know, spend 10, 000 on a music video and get like 4, 000 views. So it’s just the whole industry’s changed to DIY in a lot of ways.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Which is why I think it’s important conversation to have because, again, It can appear that way on the surface, right? Like it’s like, I think they’re making these videos themselves. It looks like they’re on their roof. So, um, but the why that also gets talked about a little bit, but I just don’t think it always gets talked about of to the degree of this is the reality of how things work and how they’ve shifted.

It obviously, you know, going back to the two thousands to 2010. You still had that element of like label money on the table and

Jared Salte: Yeah. For sure.

Glen Erickson: uh, and that stuff changing, I think people would be

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: continually surprised how much artists that are charting artists that are consistently

Jared Salte: [00:10:00] Yeah.

Glen Erickson: there, like that they’re, how much of it they’re doing themselves.

Uh, I mean, I, so I spoke with, Dan Mangan, a Vancouver artist, You know, and the very first thing I said, so what does your day consist of today? And it was going downstairs and, sorting out his merch count and stuff after a couple of shows. And I think people would be surprised. He’s still doing a merch count, but so let’s go, let’s go back.

Cause I think it’s interesting because again, other perceptions and appearances of how maybe people like, who knows where people came along and got on the, uh, the journey with the Royal Foundry, right? But, and even going back to how I explained, it was a surprise to me, right? There wasn’t a lot of people who flew under my radar back around 2013, 2014, at least in the provincial music scene.

Um, but that’s not like, that’s always what’s interesting is that you weren’t under the radar. It looked like you’re a brand new folk [00:11:00] duo. Um, In 2014, but you know, the truth is that you grew up in this extremely musical family I mean, you’re sitting in your dad’s basement. It’s all guitars and studio speakers and um, I And that upbringing I guess there’s some things i’d love to dig into and I don’t know how much You want to dig into them?

So like i’ll probably ask questions and you can You can skirt whatever you want to skirt. I don’t care. Um, I find it a little interesting and fascinating. Like everybody has certain parts of their story that are probably very different than most. And so you growing up in a musical family, your dad was, essentially, A version of it’s different words we could use right but music ministry, but in an interesting way is that, you know, there was that real Jesus music thing that happened across North America in the 70s of, [00:12:00] bands that were just, For lack of a better term, the easiest stereotype is hippie looking movements that were kind of woven into this Jesus movement.

And you had bands that would mix the two together. So they would get on a bus and they would go on their tours, but their tours were also kind of like preaching and doing a version of church work, um, married with kind of the attempt to achieve pretty authentic musical career and pretty, you know, pretty relevant, records or what have you.

So, that was your dad’s history, right? And like, and I remember, I’m a Western Canadian boy. I think I’ve told you this before. We might have talked about this, but yeah, I remember, you know, cause they would book in churches and I remember your dad’s show coming through and, and, you know, The rock and roll show coming through and booking in the church and and going and seeing all that so I guess one of my first immediate questions is how does that [00:13:00] impact you and your growing up?

Around music. I think what a lot of people don’t recognize is that growing up in a church because you hear it with Like the soul r& b singers in the states all the time, right that they grew up in the church It’s it’s the fact that it gives you opportunity Where you like from a young age to perform to be in front of people and then it gives you access to like instruments and other musicians that to play with.

Uh, it’s actually like builds a community right away. So I’m curious how that sort of started shaping you and how you feel that’s shaped even how that turned into a career for you.

Jared Salte: Yeah, it was absolutely essential to my music education. Like, we would go on summer vacation. At the same time, my dad would do some churches in the U. S. And then come, uh, have us come up on stage and sing a song with him. And, and you’re, you know, you’re, nine years old, and you’re so [00:14:00] nervous, but it helps you just get comfortable with it.

And, and that’s a sort of pressure that I think most kids would never have to go through, but in a positive way, like overcoming that and sort of developing a skin of like, I don’t care. Like, I just go up there, like, I’ll never see these people again. Just, just go for it.

Glen Erickson: But also about a validation that goes with it.

Jared Salte: Yeah, of course, yeah, like,

Glen Erickson: everybody loves seeing the kids

Jared Salte: why do we play music?

Like, there is an element that, unfortunately, I wish I just loved music, but there is an element that you want people to like it. Um, yeah, the education too is, is huge when you think of church, like, uh, people pay money to go to band camp and send their kids there and it’s like a whole thing.

But you have band camp every Sunday if you’re in the worship band, right? So it’s a lot of early experience.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. So, which obviously is [00:15:00] what led to you. Like I’m not saying like, every musician parent is going to, you know, have offspring of, you know what I mean? Who are going to become musicians. Like

Jared Salte: Yeah, for sure.

Glen Erickson: just the same as, you know, if your dad was a banker, it doesn’t mean you’re going to

Jared Salte: Yeah, but it is the family business in a way.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, you definitely,

Jared Salte: sister was in music too, and, and she’s still teaching music. And yeah, it’s just natural.

Glen Erickson: It’s definitely an exposure that probably most don’t get, which probably, so that led to you pretty early in your teens. Like working in studio and beginning to understand aspects like that and getting into a band that again, most people probably don’t see or wouldn’t probably understand just how large the Christian slash gospel music machine is, or even especially was like 15

Jared Salte: Yeah,

Glen Erickson: years ago and before that, [00:16:00] right?

Of, Like the Newsboys, you said you were open, like I think your first band, like your high Was it, was, was Junkyard Poets like a high school band, or was it

Jared Salte: That was high school. I had a junior high band before that. called The Zeds, because we’re Canadian, uh, and then Junkyard Poets. And that was our, that was the first like little taste of a little bit of success. But, um, yeah, that was, that was a really great experimental sort of project for, for me.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, which I’m, I’m gonna guess teaches you a lot, right? Like coming through and coming up. Was, was this always the path for you as a result? Like family band and then now you’re striking out on your own. You’re getting some of that validation you need to tell you whether or not you should even bother, right?

Um, along with all the typical soul crushing parts of it, I’m sure. [00:17:00] But, but was this for you, like, was this always the path?

Jared Salte: I think so. Yeah. It was. It was always going to be music. There was a period before I met Beth where the, my band Junkyard Poets was kind of fizzling out and I was mainly just producing people. And at that point I thought, Oh, I’ll just do producing, um, which nothing wrong with that. But. But I think when, when Beth and I got married, that really rekindled stuff as we started writing again.

And then obviously like, you know, you being on the panel and, and doing the peak and, uh, everything with Alberta music sort of got that fire in my belly again. It was like, Oh, Oh, I can make my own music and,

Glen Erickson: So you got a, you got a sense of opportunity. So, so at that tail end you meet Beth. Yeah.

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: was the playing music together always in the conversation? How did [00:18:00] that evolve from a, you know, out of a relationship to let’s actually do a thing together?

Jared Salte: Yeah. Well, The last Junkyard Poets album that I did, she helped write on, I think one of the songs lyrically. And then that was kind of when we started tinkering and that was, that was maybe like three years into our relationship. Um, and, and it just felt natural. Like when we released our folky Royal Foundry first album, it was, um, There was no intention of really doing this.

Everything sort of fell into place. Like, we, we, we released this. It still would have been, in some ways, kind of like gospel music adjacent, lyrically. Um, And, and actually our, our first opportunity, first show was the, the Canadian [00:19:00] Gospel Music Awards, just because we, I, I had friends from there from my previous band and, and so we, we flew out there like a month after our honeymoon, uh, and did our first show, which was like a live performance on, on a TV thing at the award show.

And it’s because of that video. Like once again, like this was all stumbled. We weren’t like trying to promote ours. It was just weird, but It was because of that video that we were able to submit a live performance video to Alberta music and then from there Everything sort of just naturally fell into place.

Glen Erickson: I mean, that’s interesting, right? Cause a lot of bands starting out and then they start to, figure out, like, what do I need to do? Like, now that I’m making music and I want to do something with it, they start asking questions, and then they’ll either come across some version of something they have to apply for, and then they get asked for these pieces.

So, I [00:20:00] mean, the fact that you already knew your way around the studio to get music made, uh, yourself, obviously put you in the driver’s seat with that. I, I, I think the GMA thing is pretty interesting too. Obviously it feels probably like those little lightning bolt moments that, you know, I think a lot of bands need, like if it was a hundred percent just slogging it, it’s hard to find the validation you need.

You sort of need, you need a couple of lightning strikes to really feel like, um, Is there anything of substance? And so you have this GMA experience, which again, going back to that validation thing must have been humongous. If you’re like, let’s just do this thing. But then all of a sudden you’re, you know, people start paying attention, right away.

I guess. Yeah. And so then the part of your story sort of moves. And this is where I start to see it move. And I’m interested whether that’s how you see it or how you experienced it too, right? [00:21:00] Where this quick success happened, which probably gives you some motivation to keep going and trying some things.

out of all those things, the one I know that happened was you obviously caught wind of this peak performance project, which is a weird thing, right? Where it’s this, artist development program. Plus it’s a giant radio cash prize and they’re married together. Which, which of those was really the thing that you were after that first time that first go around.

Jared Salte: Obviously the cash.

Glen Erickson: And for those who aren’t familiar, it was a hundred K basically to the first place winner, 75 to the second and 50 to the third. And there was only Well, eventually down to 12. I think at that first one, maybe 15 bands out of Alberta competing. So if you got chosen, your probabilities were really good. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jared Salte: Yeah. Yeah, it was. [00:22:00] It was a total Hail Mary. Like there was no part of me that expected to get it. It was just like submit and I completely forgot about it. And then one day, you know, we see the thing and we were shocked. especially cause we were coming from, well, like. gospel music, you know, and, and not that the, it wasn’t overtly Christian or anything like that, but, but there was a bit of that tinge.

So we weren’t sure,

Glen Erickson: Do you feel, do you feel though? Yeah. Let’s just go down the sidebar for a sec. Cause it’s really interesting to me. Like what makes something Christian music, right? it’s a very different world right now. I think that even 10 years ago when we were talking where even like, if you look at the Western Canadian music awards or some of the national award prizes, they sort of lump this whole spiritual music.

So obviously it’s, it’s opened up, but Christian music has [00:23:00] like deep. Roots in literally the music industry in America and Nashville being one of the ground zeroes of the music industry and and Where a lot of that came from. I find it interesting like do you feel like you sort of Got embraced or introduced or it could just do the gospel thing because of your family as much as whether or not it almost like you said the lyrics weren’t some version of an overtly christian message i’m you know you weren’t you know it wasn’t worship music adjacent which is where a lot of that industry had started shifting at that time away from just regular Artists, right?

Like singing about their own stories and everything. The machine kind of got taken over by, it had to be worship music, um, like church group, congregational singing, blah, blah, blah. So, do you feel like that entry point [00:24:00] was it really just about, this is everything I’ve known. So this is the easy, the first front door that’s easy to go through.

Jared Salte: Yeah, for sure. The I, I always wanted to do secular music, right? Um, but, uh, but I don’t, I don’t think like looking back, if I listen to that first album, like this is no more spiritual than, like a Father John Misty record or anything. Like it’s, it’s

Glen Erickson: I agree.

Jared Salte: it’s, it’s not that it’s purposefully vague.

It’s just, it’s just talking about life and it’s reflective of where we were at. And I don’t think it’s alienating in a way that, you know, modern day worship music would be clearly for like one person, uh, and one belief, right?

Glen Erickson: I yeah, I agree. I think interestingly an observation of mine is that it usually has so [00:25:00] little to do with the lyrics and half the time you can just spot it by presentation like they look good. They look Christian, they behave Christian, they

Jared Salte: Yeah, totally.

Glen Erickson: And not to make that feel like a pejorative, uh, it’s just like anything else.

Like there was a version of this is how you fit in, this is how people know what you are, this is how you differentiate yourself. So it’s no different than a scene somebody, right, might be coming out of in their region of North America. You act and look a certain way. Uh, every, everybody associates flannel with Seattle and the 90s and, um,

Jared Salte: has a scene,

Glen Erickson: yeah, absolutely.

Um, I guess here’s the part that I’m really curious about you, Jared, because, that’s again, you sort of humorously hinted at, like, I was more interested maybe in doing secular music. In other [00:26:00] words, you didn’t want to be confined or limited because that scene liked to limit themselves, right? They like to sort of put boundaries, say, these people are our, these people are ours.

And so you inevitably have to make some move. Maybe a more drastic move to get out of it. And I’m, I’m wondering what that experience was like for you, like where in the journey of, you released the first record in 2014, you do the first peak performance, before you sort of came back to the second peak performance with a very, a stylistic change, but you were also having to make a, I’m guessing some version of a conscious choice on how you were going to not be limited

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: scene

Jared Salte: Yeah. I think, um, a big turning point for us from that scene was, um, we had released Wherever We Go, which was our first album, [00:27:00] and randomly someone from Factor heard it and then sent it to Chris Winters, who is the director at Alberta Music. And then that’s how we found out about the peak. So another like random moment that just pushed us there.

And it, it felt, and it simultaneously, you know, we did a couple of church gigs and we were even denied from one because we weren’t overt enough. Like they canceled it

Glen Erickson: you weren’t Christian enough.

Jared Salte: Yeah, exactly. And it’s, so it just felt so obvious. And, and stylistically, like actual genre, um, the switch from peak the first time we entered the peak performance and the second time, the second time, like, that’s really who I am.

The first time, You know, everyone was stomping and clamping and playing banjos. And there was that three, four year period where [00:28:00] it’s like, that was the trend. And if anything, I felt like that was us following a trend.

Glen Erickson: mmm, that’s interesting I mean you came out basically like so 2013 like Mumford and Sons second album Babel like was a 2012 which pretty much cemented this entire trend of, you’re right, like the, the folk pop rock stompers and, and banjos and cool beards and all that stuff. So, um, it definitely was an easy lane

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: in, but you’re saying you knew even while you were doing it, that that wasn’t fully you.

Jared Salte: Yeah. I, I think so. I mean, everything that I’d created before was more rock leaning.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jared Salte: So it was. I don’t think it was a conscious choice. I think it’s just like anyone getting swept up in the time. Right? Like we’re all, I think we talk about following trends, like it’s some conscious decision, but usually I think it’s just, you know, you’re [00:29:00] following like you just get swept up in it.

Right. Um, yeah,

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I agree. I think I guess my observation is you’re right. Like this, the sweeping up is essentially you follow what you like. And when you do it, you stop looking.

Jared Salte: like it.

Glen Erickson: No, it’s you stop looking behind you or to the right or left. So you can’t, you can’t do all the things and just following things you liked just inherently means you let other things go probably.

But so I guess my question then, yeah. around you. Did it feel like there was risk for you in in switching? Did you like, cause you had been in this small but a version of a steady rise of validation of people affirming what you’re doing, people getting interested that you didn’t even know about and sending your music to somebody.

So those things, like did it feel real? [00:30:00] Were you feeling risky or were you sort of a completely impervious like it wasn’t on your radar? Yeah,

Jared Salte: released our first song that was kind of different. And, you know, when we took down the other album, we had people that wrote and were upset with us for doing that. And, and we had even industry people be like, what are you doing? This isn’t who you are. And, and that really hurt.

Cause you know, they didn’t know me. They’d maybe talk to me once or twice. Um, yeah. I think times have changed though. Like when I listened to new music Friday or whatever, not like the playlist, but anything out, I It’s so apparent that every album is just genre mashups, like whatever you want to create, like it’s, it’s out there.

And you have artists that will do a country [00:31:00] album, one album, and the next record, they’re doing a pop record. And, and it’s, I love it. Like, I love that there’s not that boundary anymore. And all of a sudden you’re a sellout. If you change, like, maybe I’m not a sellout. I just literally want to try something else.

And, uh,

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean, I’d love to earmark that and remember to come back to that because I think there’s an interesting observation about, like that genre jumping and stuff. It sort of confirms. How much more important the producer is sometimes in this whole process. Um, you know, then where some artists authentic inspiration and ability, lies, which I think is an interesting conversation, but I want to make sure I don’t lose a different thing first, which is,

Jared Salte: for sure.

Glen Erickson: um, so I mean that risk musically of your transition.

But I’m, I’m hoping you’d be willing to talk about what risks you might have been feeling [00:32:00] personally being so tapped into a Christian community and making choices, which you’ve already alluded to how people respond. If you do something secular, people have very a wide range of like black and white lines and how they interpret these things when Um, when they belong to like Christian communities and you had a lot of support, you had a lot of family history.

I’m just wondering what version of risk you were feeling in that community, uh, by making some of the choices and changes you were making.

Jared Salte: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s not like we, you know, we’re becoming a drastically different and contentious band, um, in a way that would offend anyone.

Glen Erickson: It’s not like you were a Disney kid all of a sudden showing up in like scantily clad clothing to

Jared Salte: yeah. So,

Glen Erickson: your [00:33:00] childhood. Yeah.

Jared Salte: so there wasn’t that, but there is always a little bit of the, I don’t know, the, the crowd that, You know, my family would be involved with following, you know, your career and, and, and that’s, that’s fine, but it, it is a different, um, Of course, that’s fine. But it’s just, it is weird because they’re always looking at you through that lens.

And I’m sure that’s for everybody, right? Like you’re, you’re trying to be serious as an artist and present yourself and, and to them, you’re that kid that was picking their nose in church and, you know, and you’ll always be that. And that’s fine. Like, um, so there is a certain point, like, I think I did struggle with that for a while, but.

Where you just kind of learn to be stoic about it and just be like, this doesn’t matter. None of this matters. I just need to do what’s important here.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. And I think it’s important to say like your parents are obviously ridiculously [00:34:00] supportive. I, I don’t, I don’t go to a show. I don’t go to a Royal Foundry show without seeing your parents

Jared Salte: Yeah. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: So, um, also maybe because I only see you in Edmonton, but, um, I’m sure they’re not

Jared Salte: No, but they’re, they’re there at every Edmonton one.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, that’s great. I mean, you can, you can be as transparent as you want to be, but I’m definitely interested, Jared, about like, for you personally was, part of, is there a period of time happening in this where you’re also of your own personal spiritual choices or, or how you want to live that out in your life that Gets a lot of pressure from an upbringing.

mean, I know with Beth, Beth’s the pastor’s kid, preacher’s kid. I’m a, I’m a preacher’s kid. I worked in a church for a while. I chose to stop. I’m asking these questions because I experienced people disappearing really quick from my life. Uh, when I did those things, I [00:35:00] experienced people asking questions of, you know.

to be blunt sometimes of like, do you feel like you’re going to hell now that you’ve stopped all these things like people who just are pretty black and white, but But I knew that internally they saw some external choices. They had no idea internally, like how much I was pulling all those threads apart on the belief system.

I sort of was handed. Uh, and it made it hard when I was making career and life changes visibly in front of people. Um, yours is being a band, you’re performative, you’re visible in front of people all the time, you’re public. I’m wondering, were you going through personal changes and questions that sort of also motivated those choices apart from the musical ones, or was that a part of the challenge at all?

Jared Salte: not then. Like, I think if anything, I think people are becoming more open minded now. maybe that’s social media. The fact that like now [00:36:00] you can’t even be in your own group, like you’re going to see everyone’s opinion generally. And that creates a little bit more open mindedness in all belief systems, which I think is a good thing.

But I, yeah, I think, I think if anything now, like, yeah, like if people are gonna get upset about something that we do or say, or a swear word in a song or something like that, then, then it’s like, well, don’t listen. Like, it’s fine. Move on. There’s a bajillion, how many songs are released every week?

Like, I, I, Pick one.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. I mean, it’s great that you come to that point of being able to allow it to be their problem and not yours. I guess that’s a part of a question I don’t think I ever asked you before and has always been on my mind, which is why I wanted to ask it. Uh, I remember a point, my dad, again, being a preacher.

And, for those [00:37:00] who get the speak, and I apologize if anybody doesn’t get the speak, but I was contemplating what he labeled the universalism, which is, maybe there isn’t some version of like the only way to quote unquote get into heaven, if that even is the main goal anymore. Um, Is only believing this one version of a story of Jesus dying and you have to accept all of that Like that narrow gateway to go through That was like me coming out of the closet.

I don’t have a Authentic coming out of a closet story. I can’t I can’t actually claim the terminology. It’s probably not right of me, but Uh, that’s what it felt like to me because it was my dad And I had to tell him I don’t know if I feel the same way anymore. Um, that one was probably the hardest, so I think I’ve always thought about that with you guys, just knowing you’re making some pretty big changes.

So,

Jared Salte: Yeah, it’s [00:38:00] I mean, yeah there’s there’s differences of opinion that we have now and on some things and you know, it’s but my parents are very Very accepting and You yeah, I mean, like, I’m, Beth and I are, are still Christian, but I think where we’re starting to lie and, and, and change is, um, you know, you start looking at some of the teachings and, and you compare it to North American Christianity and you go, what is this weird.

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jared Salte: conservatism, always vote, right? Capitalistic materialistic version. That’s like, if you were to read it without growing up in North America, you would, you would never think that,

Glen Erickson: that’s a great

Jared Salte: just so, so different. Um, so, so that’s something that like, you know, I struggle [00:39:00] with now and, and finding that balance, but yeah.

Glen Erickson: That’s, yeah, I think the point of like, if you looked at it through a different lens, I is pretty huge. I had been listening to this podcast where this, uh, cultural evolutionary evolution is, I can’t remember if that’s the right term, this author, incredible insight, but he, he, he just talked about it almost like anthropologically of, you know, the, the move when, in, in Europe, it split between West and East, right?

And the East became really Orthodox and, traditional and the, and the West followed like the Luther thing. And that basically spilled over to North America and the settlements. And then, and it got married to capitalism, like you said, you said, uh, and literally the formation of what we call the nuclear family came from religious influence on changing the rules on who could do what.

Could and couldn’t be together and narrowing down what that unit looked like, [00:40:00] married with capitalist and, uh, economical requirements of the time. So looking through a different lens has definitely been helpful, but I don’t, I don’t mean to spend forever on that, but I think it, you have it, you have a unique experience and probably a unique story to tell in that way for, I think anybody who Has sort of inherited whatever they inherited growing up and then has to go through a phase of making their own choices.

So yeah.

Jared Salte: not just religion based. I mean, everyone, like, what are you going to do as a parent? Like, your kids are going to learn what you believe. You’re not, you can’t be so open minded that they just learn nothing to believe, like it’s gonna rub off.

at some point, I think every kid needs to go through that and evaluate and go like, okay, now, now that I’m done growing up, what do I actually believe?[00:41:00]

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I absolutely agree well, let’s let’s keep going where you are on the journey because like you mentioned, like, the change coming back to your second year of Peak Performance Project, which again, was this sort of limited career window of, uh, opportunity where this program would run and the radio stations need to invest money in their local community whenever they open a new, when they get a new license, if anybody doesn’t know how that works.

So the Canadian government basically mandates that they, um, And it’s to the tune of like 700 grand a year for seven years that they have to commit to the local community. They do it in lots of ways. Great organizations like your Provincial Music Association here in Alberta, it’s called Alberti Music, and it’s like, you know, Music BC or Manitoba Music.

All these, they have, historically they got a lot of funding to keep afloat from new radio stations. There’s really no room for new radio stations. But The peak having formed out [00:42:00] of somebody who said, what if we took that money and pitched a, a program for developing artists where we literally send them to school?

Cause there’s, there’s no school for being an artist anymore. There’s, there’s only apprenticeship. anyhow, so you went through the first year fresh off as a folk duo My recollection of that, although I adored you guys, is you got absolutely shit on. Like you got hammered. I thought you got judged really harshly.

I’m wondering when you think back, is that how you felt about it? Is that how you still feel about it? How do you look back to that first, that

Jared Salte: I didn’t feel it was, I didn’t feel it was that harsh. So now I want to hear

Glen Erickson: Oh, good. Oh, I’m glad.

Jared Salte: but, um, no, I did feel, I felt more responsible. Like I felt like we were ill prepared. But. It’s a great thing we gotta go twice. Cause the first time was like, Yeah, this usually works in [00:43:00] church. I think it’ll do well here.

And then, you know, just,

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I think you were,

Jared Salte: It’s a different language.

Glen Erickson: You were trying some things, um, which I, I admired, right? You guys were, you started experimenting with the like, we’re going to play tracks on stage with some stuff too. In that time, I remember that didn’t actually work out super well, but, uh, I’m glad we laugh about it now. Um, but I just remember, I just remember that jury judged you guys really hard.

And, um, and I was part of that jury and I was, I remember feeling like, holy shit, I hope, I hope this doesn’t crush them. Right? Because, I mean, this is, I think, a big common thread for people who are aspiring to be musicians to hear is that our perception of bands that are on a trajectory, like there’s moments that are like Soul crushing and take you down so many notches [00:44:00] and you know, I think the best part of a story is how we Pull ourselves back up, right?

So Yeah, interesting to me. Is that you guys came back a second year and I remember feeling excited about that I’m guessing that I probably should have put two and two together that that’s why you obviously didn’t feel as horribly crushed from from the first year of judging uh that you felt like we could we can apply again and not everybody can get in when they apply a second time I should make a note when that happened and you guys did it you go on to win second place in 75 grand and that was quickly followed up by that running away song, which was a very clear departure from what you were before And it gets picked up by the cfl for a new style of promotion that’s doing on tv What was going on in that time and that change like?

We were you [00:45:00] feeling? Unsure about your choices at all or were you just literally running? Fully convinced like this is what I need to do

Jared Salte: Oh, fully convinced. Um, once, once we got into the peak again, we were, we were very, very determined and I, I don’t think, I think if we were at that level and it was our first peak, I don’t think we would have done as well because we had this sort of chip on our shoulder from losing out so bad the first year.

Um, at least from judges and stuff. But. Yeah, no, and from there I would say running away was definitely our, you know, you have ups and downs throughout your career, but that was our biggest trajectory to making us, you know, a little bit of a name for ourselves and being able to build off of that. So from then on it was like, uh, we, You know, we got second place on the peak, which I mean, you get second place, [00:46:00] but it feels like first place when it’s 75, 000,

Glen Erickson: Yeah, there’s no losing

Jared Salte: great feeling.

Glen Erickson: that. That’s

Jared Salte: Um, and that was, uh, yeah, right after that, I think a year later we signed a publishing deal and radio was doing good. So every everything was lining up there and it was like, okay, let’s Like I stopped producing people, um, and, and we just kind of got rid of all our anchors and we’re like, let’s just do music, which is, which is a scary thing.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Okay. I’m really glad.

Jared Salte: inconsistence.

Glen Erickson: I’m really glad you said that. Cause I think honestly, like I’ll just, I don’t, I put my cards on the table. I really hope that people will listen to this podcast who are aspiring musicians. And I think a lot of the conversations I want to have. are for their benefit, um, to sort of pull back the veil.

And I think everyone struggles with, uh, when do I jump off on this belief, right? When do I [00:47:00] make that transition to change? When do I stop the part time job? And you hear like all these opinions. I don’t know how you feel. I started to get so tired of hearing keynotes or sessions at the festivals or conferences

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: of people who would give you You know, you can go to a back to back session and get the exact opposite advice of, of you should keep your daytime job as long as you can.

And other people say, nobody’s going to believe you’re for real and, and work with you until you show that you’re serious. Quit your day job and pursue music, but it’s so different for everybody. What was, what was behind that, that feeling again, talking about a risky choice in a risky feeling, what did that look like?

What, let me put it this way. What were you hanging your hat on? Like, what, like, what was it version of success? Was it some version of the charts signing these, you know, contracts with some people to now [00:48:00] build a team. What were the things that led you to feel like, let’s hang our hat here.

Jared Salte: Yeah. I mean, we, in hindsight. Like everything worked out, but we probably jumped off too early, but it was a good thing. Um, like radio was going well. We just signed a publishing deal. We just signed with a manager, just signed with a booking agent all within, I don’t know, maybe three months, four months. So all that happens to you at once, you start to feel really good.

Like there’s some real momentum. Um, and, and now looking back, you know, Now I recognize that like yeah, there’s there’s total hot spots and cold spots and times that you’re gonna Have big swings like that and you’re like, oh my goodness. We’re doing amazing. But now if we get a big swing And I’m like, thankful, but like, no, just don’t, just chill out.

It’s fine. Like, this is just, you know, save [00:49:00] it for a rainy day. Like there’ll be a, there’ll be a bad season too. And it, and um, yeah, it was, but it was good that we jumped off because as soon as we lost that anchor, then we were able to. I don’t know. Then it’s feast or famine. Like you have to make a living out of your music, which does force you to just go for it.

Glen Erickson: So did you feel that, was that like a real palpable sense of change for you of when you’re forced to now hustle to, you know, keep paying the bills? Yes.

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: that a real noticeable like shift just in how you worked together as as a team as a couple because it’s like it’s not just you like that choice is you together and the choices you have to make just as a couple right and just how you’re going to live and all that.

So That brought about like a real specific change. And so like you you you like you mentioned like you ran if [00:50:00] like even if I look back at like your last Well, even the last four records, right? You said you have to start making some choices. So Again, going back to the I feel like you guys are a great model of diy What were some of those choices and how do they come about like how does? tv commercials Come about how does The obvious like song placement in in uh in television or movies stuff. How does that develop? How do you get those doors open? And I guess a real great question that I think a lot of people love to hear is like, how much of a role does that play in your income to survive?

Jared Salte: For sure. initially it was the biggest part of our income. Probably. Um, those doors opened once. It felt like fluke. I feel like I would be. If I said, this was the plan that we followed and that’s what got us syncs, um, there was a bit of randomness to it. And that was someone from this [00:51:00] publishing company reached out and they were sent something from someone else.

You know, it’s stuff that you can’t control. And, and that’s how we got our first sync for a Purina puppy chow commercial. And so it, to say that there was like, Oh, we followed this plan and then got it would be disingenuous, but yeah, it’s, um, I think what we did learn from that especially today, as an independent musician, like you really do need to tap all the streams of revenue because yeah, you need to be going after sync.

You need to be doing the live show. You need to be going after radio because there’s sound exchange and all that sort of stuff. Um, and, and

Glen Erickson: How much does

Jared Salte: all of it,

Glen Erickson: how much does radio play in

Jared Salte: commercial, commercial radio isn’t very much. Um, But it is the momentum builder for us for sure like that’s Probably like we [00:52:00] always thought TV syncs would be like a big discovery point like I remember we met with Someone that worked at Shazam, and we like made sure that our song was properly being received in the commercial because like it was mixed lowers in the, in the mix.

So we’re like, can we submit a version of that commercial so that you can redirect it to our song so people can discover it? And it was like nationwide played three years in the U S like it was a pretty big sink and, and would have had a lot of eyes and ears on it. But The discovery was so low and we thought it’d be much bigger.

But, but radio has always been, um, great source of discovery. So.

Glen Erickson: a good point. I mean, I work, I work in digital marketing. I have for a number of years, right? Where the whole idea. is this idea of the funnel that people go through and the top of the funnel they call awareness. And I think a lot of [00:53:00] people would, in interpreting that into music. I think a lot of people might have assumptions that the fact that you’re always charting that you’re being played on like the local, uh, stations around here, like quite a bit.

Like I hear you all the time that there’s some version of a pretty good compensation on the other side probably isn’t as true as they think, but it’s doing the other work for you, as you said, of, of trying to drive attention, uh, to what you’re doing. Yeah. I mean, So, I mean, you guys have, you’ve frequently entered the songwriting contests.

You’ve won a couple of times. Was that again just, uh, I’ve tried this before with some success when I was a teenager. So is this just another avenue to try to pay the bills?

Jared Salte: Yeah. For sure. It, it, it’s just another, we were, there’s a part of me that’s always wondered, should I stop submitting? Like we were talking with another [00:54:00] band and there’s a point that they felt like it looks unprofessional to submit to some of these songwriting competitions and whatever. They had their reasons.

I understand what, where they’re coming from, but. But mine was always just revenue stream. So, I still submit. And it’s you know, a lot of people don’t win, obviously. But we’ve had a pretty good track record. And if it’s 30 bucks, and you win 1 out of 10, I mean, it’s still worth it. think some of them are kind of I don’t think they’re over promising, but I think people think that if, you know, trying to think of an example, if, because they have these celebrity judges, right?

Like they think if this person’s listening to music, then you’re going to make a big time. And that is not true. They are listening to it, maybe 30 seconds and, and then nothing happens. Maybe you move forward. Like, yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean, so that. Like, [00:55:00] think about it this way, right? It’s like, like, I think the new version that we’ve been in for probably a decade, so not that new, of this, like, quick fame, is like the, the American Idol model now, and there’s so many singing competitions. What people are trying to do is, everyone’s just trying to skip a whole bunch of steps on the ladder, on their way to the top.

And We keep getting fed so many stories of people that it happens for or works for that we put a lot of effort into it. I think what I see from, from you and Beth is at some point you’ve sort of found you’re like, well, this is the balance on how you actually make a career

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: of all this. When do you feel like along the way out of these records?

When do you feel like you really settled into knowing what that was? Like, this is what a career looks like for us right now. Or you don’t feel that

Jared Salte: feel We don’t feel settled. It’s It’s [00:56:00] still Nervous. It’s There’s still moments where you’re like, Uh, is this year gonna be okay? Like, it It still feels like a gamble. At, uh Our level. The only thing that we’re going off of is, is the faith that it worked last album. And so things will probably come in, hopefully, maybe.

And, and that’s, I know that isn’t very inspiring, but that there, that’s the risk. That’s the like, not having an anchor. And, and the reality that like, for some people, if they work part time and have music, That probably works amazing for them, depending on what you’re doing. But for us, I think if I started working another job, I think it would, it would take away mentally and my energy to do this.

And then it would fizzle out. And, and, That’s not for everybody. Like, that’s why I think that answer, you [00:57:00] know, you talking about going to a festival and hearing two different opinions, there’s no right or wrong answer. It’s just, I think the mistake that people make in receiving that news and people make in giving that news is that it’s, it’s not for everybody.

Like it, it’s a personal advice. Everyone has a different journey and what will work for them and to assume that there’s one size fits all like people are being discovered on TikTok randomly or through some random video and that’s how they blow up and sure if like some Cinderella moment happened we would welcome it but it is funny how the industry Most of these times when someone blows up, if you dig a little deeper, like, Chaperone, everyone’s like, overnight success, industry plant, all this stuff, and it’s like, no, she’s been working at it for a long, long time.

Like, what are you talking

Glen Erickson: Well, I remember the very first, like Kelly Clarkson, right? First Idol winner. Yeah. And I remember when finally, and it was a lot of [00:58:00] years later, and it was the same deal with Carrie Underwood, I believe of people saying, actually, they’ve been in LA slinging their demos around for four years. they didn’t come from nowhere.

Everybody already knew who these people were. Right. So they just, they landed in a place of opportunity, right. Which, which sounds a lot sort of how you’ve described a couple of these moments in your career of you, you keep

Jared Salte: it’s funny, cause It’s funny because everyone wants that story of overnight success, like it’s a better story. And uh, I think Malcolm Gladwell, the author had this thing about it, like how we love the dark horse.

Glen Erickson: Oh, yeah.

Jared Salte: That’s insane. Like you should like the team that like worked hard all season and put in the reps to succeed, you know?

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, sincerely, I’m glad you pointed that out because that’s literally my motivation for these conversations, which is I think the life of pursuing music Has [00:59:00] a very different look to it, and it has a lot of looks based on who I talk to and I think that’s important for people to see and to know you and know where you came from and appreciate more the effort you’ve made to try to build a career over 10 years.

Now, like I think, you know, a couple of things that we’ve sort of already talked about. One, your upbringing and surroundings meant that you, you got a headstart on understanding the business. And aspects of the business, which most people have to either learn and be scrappy or they, they start dying or surviving on grants or some way to pay other people to do these things for them because they don’t understand.

And you sort of had some of that in your tool belt. And, and even along the way you’ve either made the choice because I don’t know, is it because you guys want the artistic control to make all your own videos or is it also a financial? choice or because that just Beth is really good behind a camera and has a creative [01:00:00] vision maybe.

So there’s factors, right?

Jared Salte: yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of factors. Um, Yeah, creative control is a huge thing. Um, we like collaborating with people and we’ve done it many times before, but it’s also, you know, you’re married, you live in the same house, you can easily shoot something on the weekend or whatever. And, and there is, uh, yeah.

Glen Erickson: That’s yeah.

Jared Salte: Yeah. Something nice to that.

Glen Erickson: I, yeah. Well, I think it has helped define your brand, whether it was fully intentional from the start or not. It has clearly become part, uh, of the brand of who you guys are. So do you feel like what? Having had the upbringing, having the opportunity to go through a development program, like, like you did and learn what you’ve learned and sort of understanding the business side of music.

Like, what do you feel has changed the most [01:01:00] right now? Like what is just completely different than it was 10 years ago on the business side of, of trying to build yourself as an artist?

Jared Salte: Radio is one big one. I would say the impact of our song charting lower on radio 10 years ago made a much bigger difference on streams than it does today. there’s a good and bad side to that. The good side is that, you know, maybe Uh, there’s, there’s less curation and more just discovery, but that’s not totally true either because all the playlists are basically the new radio, right?

It’s like, it’s like you have to make it on this playlist for your song to do well. So that’s the other level of curation. But I, I think too, like it’s, it’s, it’s tough. I feel like it’s harder. to make money as a musician now than it was 10 years ago in a strange way, but at the same time, [01:02:00] it’s cheaper to make music and cheaper to make videos.

So it’s this, it’s this trade off. It’s like the expectation to do a full blown music video if you have a single isn’t really there, even for larger bands, like you don’t have to, it can be more about just promoting on TikTok. Like anyone with a phone can now, you know, you can make music on your phone with a couple adapters and whatever.

And, and that’s amazing. Like, it’s cool that everyone’s creating, but, but yeah, but it is harder. It’s diluted. There’s way more artists and way more competition for not very many spots.

Glen Erickson: Not very many spots at all. Very true. So,

your latest album, which is still pretty fresh in the world. and the song Famous, is that the one you feel is getting the most traction right now?

Jared Salte: Yeah. Yeah. That one’s doing really good for us right now.

Glen Erickson: Okay. It’s a great song, by the way. I think it’s a really great song. Um, yeah, I just all of a sudden, in [01:03:00] my mind, I was like, not that my opinion matters at all. You know what it made me think of, actually, Jared? Like, I don’t know if you remember, like, you guys after the peak would send me tracks sometimes, uh, to listen to, because you were trying new things.

Um, yeah. And I just, I distinctly remember, and I don’t know if it was on Running Away or maybe another one, but I was hearing what you were doing and I was hearing this sort of edge to the synth pop. Um, so it wasn’t pop, it wasn’t synthy, and I, I just distinctly remember I was in love with really granular synth sounds.

And I remember giving you, uh, some version of air quote advice on air quotes. Leaning into this thing and then I remember later thinking I don’t think they’re asking for my Creative direction, uh by just sending me some tracks nicely just to get some feedback on but Anyhow, that just made me laugh. I just remember distinctly doing that with you guys

Jared Salte: were always [01:04:00] looking for feedback.

Glen Erickson: You’ve done very well in making the choices that you made choices for yourself, uh in your musical direction, Uh, I’m curious, what’s, what’s inspiring you like right now, you know, like when we start, we’re generally trying to probably like reconstruct the thing that made us love it in the first place when we’re young, right?

Like either, I want to be this band, right? I want to feel like I could be put on the shelf, Beside them, if somebody were to hear my songs, but, uh, but that changes over time and the exposure that you have to all these different artists, what, what’s the thing that’s sort of inspiring you like right now, musically, sonically, how you want to develop your art.

Jared Salte: I don’t know. Um, there’s no specific, Oh, there’s a couple of specific artists. I really like medium build. Put out this album called Country. It was so good. And it’s an [01:05:00] example of that kind of genre bending that I’m starting to really like. Um, it definitely has a sound, like in a brand, but, but it’s, it’s okay to explore and, and, uh, take people on a journey.

And that’s the thing. Like, Going back to that genre bending that’s been the most inspiring is seeing all these artists where you go, like even, uh, is it SZA? Is that how you say it? S Z A?

Glen Erickson: I don’t want to be the one to correct you. So we’ll say, yeah, we’ll say, yeah, that sounds

Jared Salte: Uh, her, her latest album, that was the first time I heard it where, you know, it’s like R& B, hip hop, rap, and then all of a sudden, there’s just a punk song in the midst of it.

of the album and I loved that. I loved that. It wasn’t even the best song on the record in my opinion, but it was just, it was just a breath of fresh air that, you know, we don’t need 10 songs that all sound exactly the same or we’re betraying [01:06:00] our audience. And, and And I think there’s an appetite for that in everything.

Like same reason there’s kind of Marvel fatigue and Disney fatigue. It’s like people just want something a little bit different. Like, the, the formula used to work, but now it’s, yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Do you feel like, I guess it’s not like you’re going to go out and write a sizzle song. Um, but you need sort of, you need that to propel you in a different direction and to think about a few things differently. Right. Even if that’s not where you’re going to end up.

Jared Salte: For sure. And that’s been the biggest stretch for me. And I’m still trying to unlearn that because I think growing up with gospel music, uh, that CCM world is very structured and, uh, like melodically even, and trying to make something catchy and, and that’s great. I think that taught me like how to make really catchy little licks [01:07:00] and, and melodies.

And that’s great. But, but I think I’m having to unlearn that and have been unlearning that for the past 10 years and want to unlearn it more just to be free to like, Oh, this, like, we don’t need to do verse chorus, verse chorus, bridge chorus, every song. Like I can just drop out. and do something completely different.

It, it’s, it’s this idea that if it doesn’t follow the formula, then no one’s going to like it. Or, but I’m finding now that that’s changing and the appetite seems to be like, no, if you just do something totally left field, maybe the people you want to like, it will like it. And then the other people will just dissipate and they, you know, they can go listen to formulaic pop rock if they want.

But yeah,

Glen Erickson: Where do you, where do you land on the. I feel like maybe it’s a little controversial, controversial, sorry, between musicians or artists. The, the stuff that’s come out from Rick Rubin’s book where he’s like, he tells people not to write for the audience, right? Like you write it for [01:08:00] yourself only.

Jared Salte: yeah. Um,

Glen Erickson: It feels like that doesn’t pay the bills. And I’m wondering, like, is that, is that something

Jared Salte: a balance. I think every record, every record still needs a couple hits, you know, a couple songs that people can tap their toes to. Like there is something, if you’re going to, there’s a balance. Like you can’t always be dropping the formula and, and, Just throwing everything out the window like that’s cool for a few songs But every now and then people want something.

There’s a balance between like wanting something new but something familiar and and packaging it in a way that that feels fresh but safe and I think that sounds sad to an artist, but it is a reality of,

Glen Erickson: Yeah.

Jared Salte: trying to make something that you can sell. Like, no one’s gonna hum your 13 minute song.

prog rock song. And if you find your 13 minute prog [01:09:00] rock people, I’m one of them. Um, that’s great. But, but very few people do.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I guess, and in more like mainstream terms, maybe only Taylor is going to get away with a 13 minute version of All Too Well or whatever that song. So, uh, you have to earn a certain stripe to get there. Is there, so, do you have an example, like, of one of your, songs either on the recent album or other that you feel really captures you stepping into a more freedom in the structure like you were talking about of how you approach a song or build a song and letting some of the old stuff go is there a song that really captures that for you?

Jared Salte: Um, I’m not sure when this podcast is coming out, but the,

Glen Erickson: In the new

Jared Salte: a new in the new year. Okay. We have, um, a song coming out in the new year called I don’t want to talk and it’s, um, The album that we just put out is, is [01:10:00] actually part one of a two part EP album. and the whole second half of that album is much more experimental and, and, um, I think strays quite a bit from some of the Royal Foundry conventions.

Um, that song being one of them, I don’t want to talk, um, that just, you know, you know, like there’s something a little bit folksy to it, but then willing to go full throttle rock partway through. And, and, um, yeah, it was kind of freeing to make something like that to kind of, you know, you talking about trying to maybe not emulate your favorite artists, but like, that’s who inspires you.

And there’s something. that I think as you start making your passion your career, it’s really easy to lose that childlike wonder of like the first time you accidentally do a pinch harmonic and you’re like, Oh my goodness, this [01:11:00] is amazing. Um, and, and that sort of discovery. And I think that that album has been all about trying to like, write, that sounds weird, but like, write like a teenager, right with fresh years.

Right.

Glen Erickson: I don’t think that sounds weird at all. I think that I think that’s a really great point to make. I think if you’ve been doing it as earnestly and full time as you have been doing, I think it’s pretty obvious how easy it would be to kind of lose your way in that. And, uh, and so, whatever version, I think every band that has longevity has a time and a version that probably becomes obvious down the road when they, when they were doing exactly what you just described, right?

It’s like, I need to go rediscover something to keep this going. So

Jared Salte: Rubin’s point. At least to some degree is like, yeah, that’s

Glen Erickson: it’s not either or right?

Jared Salte: yeah, it, and if [01:12:00] you’re good at writing for yourself, then people will like it. But to assume that you just write for yourself and it’ll be great. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, I mean altruism is really difficult especially as an artist right and to say That is there and you sort of joked about it at the very beginning like do any of us Yeah, we’re writing a song that satisfies and scratches some itch deep inside of us. That’s what’s happening every single time. I want I’m just I’m changing the voicing of a chord because it’s scratching melancholy, right?

Uh But it’s impossible to divorce that from, I hope somebody else feels the same thing I just felt. And for whatever reason, because we felt it so strongly when we were being influenced in growing up and shaping ourselves around the music we were consuming, it feels so important that somebody else has that same experience with what I make, right?

So, [01:13:00] um, um,

Jared Salte: But that’s the cool thing about the new music industry is that, uh, it doesn’t happen for everyone, but you certainly have the potential to write that niche thing that feels so personal and scratched your itch. And like before it would have to go through gatekeepers and no one else would find it because it didn’t hit the formula.

But, but now there’s always a chance that you could find your people that are like, Oh, that’s my favorite thing.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, and I think that’s really the thing is like whether it was the narrow set of gatekeepers or curators or now it’s the algorithm and however you feel like if you want to just do this to make success and make money, whether it was then or now, you’re going to pursue that with a lot more of your time and energy versus what you just described, which is the sense of finding your people, which I think is

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Incredible. Do you feel like right now at 10 years, like you’ve found your [01:14:00] people or do you feel like that’s still evolving? Do you feel

Jared Salte: like there’s more people out there, but uh, but I do feel like we found some of our people and, and we’re just waving our, waving our flag? No, we’re, we’re putting up a banner saying here we are.

Glen Erickson: Yeah. Yeah.

Jared Salte: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: That’s awesome. Okay. Well, uh, I really appreciate you taking the time, to do

Jared Salte: really appreciate being on.

Glen Erickson: um, I’ve always loved your story along the way and being able to feel like I’ve been, you know, only at arm’s length from it, like pretty close to it. it’s been pretty great. I’ve obviously got a lot of musician friends and whatnot, but, uh, I’ve always felt, like I said, at the start, pretty good affinity with what you guys do.

I think, being just genuinely really great people in the industry consistently over 10 years is maybe one of the things I appreciate the most. So, and you taking the time out to do this is, uh, pretty great for [01:15:00] me. So I appreciate it. And, you’re going to have to give my best to Beth, wherever she is, hands full with a little one.

Um, so before we leave, then looking into the the new year. the second half of this project is when, is there a target for when that come out where we, what we look forward

Jared Salte: Uh, yeah. Spring, March, April.

Glen Erickson: Okay. Yeah. And get some releases out in advance to, to get it rolling. Well, Jared, I appreciate the time and I look forward to when I get to bump into you again.

Jared Salte: Yeah. Totally.

Glen Erickson: Okay.

Jared Salte: so much.

alexi: one that you’ve met. Another one that

Glen Erickson: about the interview with Jared from the Royal Foundry

alexi: I’ve met.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, you have met Jared. I think we mentioned it in the conversation in the podcast as well, but.

Yeah, I do [01:16:00] remember Taste of Edmonton. You don’t know, but you, I think you probably don’t even realize because we’ve taken you to couple of things like Taste of Edmonton. It’s been in a couple of places

alexi: Oh yeah.

Glen Erickson: also another, there was also another. I posted a picture, this week of myself and episode two host, uh, or guest Grant Lawrence, of posing together and he’s wearing one of his CBC sweaters and I’m wearing a Wheatpool t shirt. And it was actually after a performance of the Royal Foundry and I can’t

alexi: Oh.

Glen Erickson: I can’t remember what that event was about. So, but I know it was the Royal Foundry that we were watched and that we talked about after because they were very. up and coming

alexi: Yeah, what a tie in.

Glen Erickson: A lot of tie in. You’re right. So, um, but you had a chance to listen to the episode. Uh,

alexi: Yeah. I

Glen Erickson: audio wrestling match for whatever technical reasons. So, uh, I still don’t, as we’re [01:17:00] speaking now, I still don’t know what the final outcome of that wrestling match is going to be, but hopefully it’ll be good.

But

alexi: think good.

Glen Erickson: you know, what, um, stood out in the episode you? I’m not sure how much you’ve listened to their. Music before

alexi: I’ve heard, I’ve heard a little bit, I’ve heard you play a little bit. And I’ve definitely went and looked myself. They’re not in my daily rotation the same way like even Dan was But good. I don’t know there was kind of two main things that And what I’m not gonna get into, because this will make 10 minutes go into 10 hours really fast, but, uh, and that was the whole, like, kind of talk of, like, religion and how you guys dove into kind of that topic relation to, like, music and music careers, but the other one was, um, When you guys were talking about like, when to take the leap.

As soon as you guys started talking about that, I was just like, oh, that’s just such a [01:18:00] vague spot in like a music career. Like you just never hear about it other than like, when you watch like The Voice or one of those shows. And it’s like, oh yeah, you know, a year ago I quit my full time job and now I’m pursuing music full time.

And that’s like, yeah, yeah. But that’s the extent of it. Like, You hear that and then, yeah.

Glen Erickson: hear that part of the story. We sort of just, you sort of assume there’s been one steady straight line. To get to where you finally heard about them. Cause I think in the, in, I think in the first episode with Dan Mangan, we talked maybe a little bit about it as well, cause that’s a big part of his story when he decided and, and he’s, it became sort of iconic in song because he wrote about the experience of driving down to South by Southwest.

And that was a big part where he sort of had to decide, right, am I going to jump off and do this full time? But

alexi: Yeah. I

Glen Erickson: the Royal Foundry is another version of that, that yeah, for sure is big.

alexi: [01:19:00] mean, Dan, Dan’s conversation was more like, you know, I took the jump and then, you know, he was saying how he’s still doing so many aspects for himself and kind of still on that grind, whereas like the Royal family was like, it was just very like raw and like, like, Oh, you take the jump and then it’s like, Here’s how much income is like actually being made.

And like, here’s how hard you have to work. And here’s all these other like alternative routes to do. And then I remember when he had said that, like, it had been like, however many, however, extend of time since they took that jump and it still doesn’t feel like settled in is the term he used. Like he still doesn’t feel settled in whatsoever.

Glen Erickson: Yeah,

alexi: that’s

Glen Erickson: maybe do you think do you think he was inferring that maybe he still doesn’t feel comfortable?

alexi: Yeah. That’s what I think it was.

Glen Erickson: when you’re in a job, right, and you’ve been there for six months and you’re like, this

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: I’m the new guy or

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: Yeah, that makes sense. I think it was, you know, to be honest, now that you say that I recollect during the conversation [01:20:00] that I kind of maybe even wish for more detail. It would be great in some of these conversations to pull out even like going to tell me how much they’re probably actually making but it would sometimes be kind of nice to see right because he is supporting like all the things that they support themselves with

alexi: Yeah,

Glen Erickson: songwriter competitions or writing jingles for South American people or whatever it may be. You know, and how well the record does or doesn’t do from one to the next. And they keep trying to

alexi: mm hmm

Glen Erickson: but you’re right. You don’t ever hear about when does that artist or when did that artist actually have to take that very risky, you know, leap, whatever you want to call it. Right.

alexi: Yeah, or even that like I feel like when you hear about a lot of the time It’s like I made that jump and then here’s all these things that have gone really well And here’s these things I’ve flourished in where he said, you know I took that jump and then it was kind of do or die. I forget the phrase he used but it was basically [01:21:00] like Like you succeed or you starve like and that what like is what becomes very apparent and it’s like I think that he was just very like raw with his truth like you don’t hear a lot of people who have taken as big risk and like he has succeeded in Taking that risk, but that wasn’t his point.

His point was like, yeah It’s not an easy thing and it’s not very like it’s not like not a not a fun thing But it’s like it’s a hard thing to do and while it’s like a great thing There’s like all these Like hard choices and parts of it.

Glen Erickson: more clear how you could be doing the thing you love. And still not sure how it’s gonna pan out tomorrow

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: day, right? That’s definitely a palpable feeling from that Well, I mean you wanted to skip over the religion thing but and that’s fair because I think My when I left that conversation I was like did I I think I talked about that for too long I don’t know

alexi: did.

Glen Erickson: [01:22:00] your thoughts were

alexi: was, really interesting. I mean, I might be biased, but, No, I think it was really interesting. I wrote down, let me see, I texted it to myself, When you guys were talking, oh, and you guys were just, Saying like that when you like grow up or like if you are raising kids like, you know What’s like deflected off of yourself like just as an individual and I think it was like a really interesting point um, because even just like my Friends and I have talked about like, you know religion and spirituality in and of our like ourselves and like if we were raised in the church like And are no longer going to church if we had a kid You That we would probably want to still raise them there or not.

And it’s that kind of really interesting question when you’re in that place. And I’ve discussed it in like such detail with people. And there’s like a way that you guys phrase it. That just like hit a chord in my brain. I’m like, Oh, I haven’t thought about it that way. And it was, when Jared said, what are you going to do as a parent?

And your kids are going to learn what you [01:23:00] believe. You can’t just be so open minded that they learn nothing to believe. Cause that’s going to rub off as well. And it’s like this really interesting point of like, and it just, it just got me thinking, cause it’s like, you know, you’re your spirituality that rubs off on me, like your music taste that rubs off on me.

Like, and if you choose to like, take no stance and be like an open slate and just like a clear slate, like,

Glen Erickson: of a non sequitur there. It’s

alexi: yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: the coin exists, Um, but yeah, I mean, you’ve, mean, I think that’s interesting, even the way you phrased it beforehand about, you know, going, whatever version of church it is, and the way he talked about, you know, just the, you know, what, what are you going to do with your kids and maybe the fact that the reality of what, how you were raised can sometimes go away for a while, right?

When you start to [01:24:00] become independent, really the age you’re at now, right? Where you get to start making choices for yourself, but then. People who have kids, maybe that’s when that comes back and they start to think about it. And of course the complexity for them is, you know, I think two things. Um, both, you know, how do you raise a kid as a full-time rock and roll band? I don’t know. There’s not a lot of blueprints around it. There’s not anybody on any block. We’ve lived on That was always me, I guess. I guess I was the guy. Uh, who is doing that, uh, for a long time. So maybe that’s why I can really relate to him that way. But, I think I just felt like in, in everything I’ve seen or read about them, nobody’s ever talked about his lineage. and

alexi: [01:25:00] Yeah.

Glen Erickson: yeah, I just would have loved that. But I, I wanted to sort of just dig into his perspective on how that lineage sort of played out. Because if you think about it, easy sometimes for us to talk about in music, some of the normal roadblocks or barriers of, for example, we live in Western Canada, right?

And a couple of the people I’ve already talked to, how the Canadian music industry is so Toronto based. And so out here, there’s a constant struggle of, Do I have to move? Do I have to leave everything behind? Do I have to sort of start over and try to succeed in a new scene or community, and not have all my supports?

And I think for people who are given a lot of advantages musically, if they grow up in a church, especially certain styles of churches where music is so readily available, The thought of if I don’t want to be locked in that box, I’m going [01:26:00] to have to start over with a whole new

alexi: Yeah. I’m out. Yeah, yes, yes,

Glen Erickson: support system and all that kind of stuff, right? Okay. I won’t go on about that whole thing, but the one part that I did think I was going to bring up the one, because I needed to ask you, did I talk about it for too long? And here I am probably talking about it for too long again, but I had such a personal, I just had a lot I wanted to dig into, but, uh, I appreciate your perspective. I guess the one thing that I thought about. Actually, while, so yesterday you and I were driving home from Saskatchewan, home from the funeral for your grandpa, and it was a very tough weekend. we had the funeral on Saturday in the church your mom grew up in, that your parents had belonged to for years. I think some of the conversation between your brother and myself and some others were [01:27:00] like it, just the uncomfortableness of them using the Christianese and the Churchinese when your papa was so. And so relatable everybody that wasn’t churchy,

alexi: yeah,

Glen Erickson: that we didn’t love that. Right. And, and so I was just, I know I talked a lot about their church background I can, I can I can start to sometimes knock all that really easy.

Like I can knock, I could walk away from that funeral, you know, in the same way I can walk away from the conversations with Jared and his stuff, and you can sort of knock the limitations or the things we don’t love that

alexi: mm hmm.

Glen Erickson: church culture stuff. And, you know, there’s a portion of your life you grew up around it too.

But, but I did notice from the funeral and I had to remind myself is how incredible. that community of people can be for all their faults. Um, you know, that the way they stick together and you saw those people who,[01:28:00]

alexi: Yeah,

Glen Erickson: you know, he had affected their life, but he, you know, they affected his life. It’s well, the way that, you know, the way that they just would clear the schedule for

alexi: mm hmm.

Glen Erickson: in and they didn’t charge anybody you know, put on a reception and make all that food and and endlessly be there.

Anyhow, it’s it’s. That part is beautiful. And I think I would be remiss not to point out for all the times that I am willing to sort of, throw a bunch of daggers at the entire I should talk about when we see the beautiful parts about it too, uh, which we did this weekend. And I should be reminded about that. the positive optimism that Jared had, I thought, what he took from being part of like a family band growing up the support they’re given now, even when they went through this horrible fire and stuff has just been, pretty incredible. [01:29:00] So I love that part of the story too. So,

alexi: Yeah,

Glen Erickson: you know, it’s funny because like you sort of, could totally hear me scratching my beard there. Did you hear that? Um, I can see the meter going up and down when I scratched my beard. Um,

alexi: know

Glen Erickson: and yeah, I, I, um, let’s move on. We can move on for that. Uh, I really enjoyed being able to talk to them.

I would have loved to also talk to Beth because I really like her perspective. Uh, you talk about like Dan doing it all himself. I don’t know how much we dove into in that episode, but they are so

alexi: you called it. Yeah, they, yeah, they called it DIY. You guys talked briefly, but you guys talked about the DIY aspect, which was also interesting because I don’t know how I phrased it, but he said he had a very outward appreciation for the fact that he’s been able to DIY his music career. Um, and I also think, I think that’s interesting.

I think a lot of people who’ve had to work that hard have that work come [01:30:00] from themselves and their own resources. sometimes can just easily bash that and take it for granted, um, because it’s hard, but I don’t know. I, I think he, he just sounded like he was very, like, grateful that he was, like, he’s able to do that, um, or the both of them, and I think that’s also an interesting, an interesting take.

Glen Erickson: So let’s, um, quickly to sort of wrap up our little touch base. I wanted to have a little, um, connection to around music because, I always like getting your recommendation and I’ve

alexi: Hmm,

Glen Erickson: big week of some new music. I haven’t even absorbed it all, but I’m going to

alexi: what?

Glen Erickson: names. So who’s

alexi: Yes. For you?

Glen Erickson: No, who’s going to go first? So you’re going to tell me

alexi: Oh. How much do you have? I got, I got one song.

Glen Erickson: Okay. Tell me you go

alexi: Okay. I might, I might butcher the name. Um, Waited Out by Bo Staloc. Stalic? [01:31:00] Something?

Glen Erickson: probably

alexi: I don’t know.

Glen Erickson: if it’s

alexi: Maybe Stay Lock, but so good. I was, yeah, I had, I was like, I was just reading into it, and I was reading the lyrics, cause I think last episode we were talking about like songs that I, or maybe the one before, songs that I find and I repeat, and it’s like, My like, I don’t know dirty habit of music like i’ll find a song that itches something in my brain and then i’ll play it 30 times in a week and everyone gets sick of me.

Um But this was one and then I actually went and took time and looked at the lyrics because it’s a very catchy song And it’s just interesting. It’s just it’s he’s talking about a girl but like the overall theme of like waited out is like patience and uncertainty and like The two things together, like having patience for something that you’re like uncertain about or uncertain will or will not happen.

I don’t know. I just thought it was really interesting. It’s just, it’s a catchy kind of like light tune and then you read [01:32:00] the lyrics and you really think about them and you’re like, oh, like, you know, and I also thought it was interesting in relation to the episode and just like, um, when Jared was talking about taking a leap, uh, in career, like that’s something that ties perfectly.

Like you have to be so patient with like yourself and your career and like a timeline. When you take that leap, um, and there’s also just like that uncertainty of like, you know, like what’s going to happen. When’s it going to happen? So I thought that was a good tie together for the song I wanted to talk about.

Glen Erickson: Especially the when’s it gonna happen. Like, we’re getting less and less tolerant of waiting for the when.

alexi: Yeah.

Yeah.

Glen Erickson: I think that’s yeah, and that’s subject. That’s great. It’s subject matter that doesn’t sort of drawn out in the quote unquote, typical relationship, love song, whatever version that’s, uh, being spun out.

Right? So, uh, I like that. [01:33:00] A lot. I saw I recognize the name because I saw you’ve already added it to the Spotify playlist. So,

alexi: Oh, I had to.

Glen Erickson: and if anybody didn’t know yet, we do have a Spotify playlist. That’s public. That’s under the name, almost famous enough. So you can look it up and listen to songs that we talk about here or songs by artists or that artists. Or the guests, I should say, mention as well. So, I’m going to go listen to that one for sure. Cause now you talking about the lyrics and subject matter, that’s always going to get me hooked in to go and check it out. Um, for me, it was a big week of. bands that are sort of more recent top on my list, right?

So,

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: first one is Inhaler. I had been waiting for their new album to drop. It’s called Open Wide. So Inhaler is a band from the UK. It’s the son of Bono of U2. [01:34:00] And. Not 2024, but in that was the top song of my 2023 I absolutely fell in love with the album and a couple of the songs on the album, well one in particular, and I absolutely love it actually when I can hear the Bono tone in his voice.

It’s like, I loved Bono back when Bono was most relevant with his band and to hear his voice in a way. In a new way, in a new band that feels more relevant again, without all the weight of it having to be Bono and this bigger than

alexi: Yeah.

Glen Erickson: somehow the, the, the mix of that feels so good to me.

So I, I’m hoping this record’s great. I know one song off of it is really good so far. And I

alexi: Okay.

Glen Erickson: The playlist. The second band is called Michigander. It’s a self titled record.

alexi: Oh yes. Yeah.

Glen Erickson: like my indie bops playlists all the time because this guy writes, it’s [01:35:00] basically one guy, but he goes under the term Michigander and it’s very glossy, as glossy as indie can get, I think, in writing kind of indie pop stuff, but it’s like, upbeat, it’s bangers.

It’s pretty feel good. Even in the song, even though the songs are sad bastard tunes. So anyhow, I’m hoping that he’s continuing a string of really good records too. So the theme here for me is like, there’s three records and I’m hoping they measure up to the impact that these previous records have.

The last one is Sharon Van Etten, who I think is

alexi: Okay. Okay.

Glen Erickson: of any list I make. And so she made a record and called it Sharon Van Inman, the attachment theory.

So she’s doing an experiment where she writes with the band and sort of relinquishes a lot of that responsibility and then kind of honored it [01:36:00] by. Naming the band into it, I guess. So, so I listened to that once while we were driving home yesterday, but the weather was bad and things were noisy and I, I didn’t sink into it.

So I’m going to have to listen to that one more, but there, those are my three things I’m fascinated with right now. And I can’t wait to get into, and I hope maybe other people check out and I’ll put some of their songs on the playlist. Awesome.

alexi: I’ll dig in more, yeah,

Glen Erickson: Okay.

fantastic. you for your time as always.

alexi: yeah, of course, for you,

Glen Erickson: one.

alexi: yeah, pretty soon here,

okay bye,

Glen Erickson: Bye bye.

alexi: love you too.